Tell Me Once More Progressives That Hillary and the WLB are "The Same"

[Whateverist]

Bernie is too fucking old to run in 2020.  

I'm tempted to refuse to vote for him just to piss off the Bernie-Bros if he DID run.  Just to show that it works both fucking ways.  But I'm not a stupid piece of shit who whines when I don't get my way.  Which is why I'm only TEMPTED.

I hear what you're feeling, but don't ever really go there.  There are too few adults left in this country.

[Pat Mustard]

Hillary would be better than Trump.  If you think otherwise, I'd like to know who did your lobotomy.

A dog shit hanging from a stick in the centre circle of Anfield would have made a better predisent than Drumpfuck.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Bush did kill over a million people while torturing others and bringing in the era of mass surveillance, while David Duke would have endorsed whatever Republican was on top, no matter what.

[Emphasis added -- Thump]

I'd like to see an unbiased source for the emboldened claim, if you please?

That was my only real point there. That I think it's silly to go around calling everyone who doesn't vote the same way you do a piece of shit [...]

I certainly agree with the general sentiment you're espousing here.

[...] maybe the Hillary voters are right that 3rd party voters waste their vote, and only time will tell if that's the case, but I completely understand people like Dr. Cornell West that want to try and see what can happen, rather than folding and giving up on improvements to their communities without a fight.

I disagree with the idea that a third-party vote is wasted in all cases. I live in Texas. Trump won my state by 750,000 votes. Had I voted for Clinton (whom I found preferable, though wrong about some issues, and not fully trustworthy for my money), it would not have done a damned thing to change the Electoral College pickup for Trump. I voted third-party this last election, as I have done in most elections since 1994's Congressional elections because I think both parties are far too mired in the legalized bribery of our system, especially as it has grown since the Citizens United ruling. Even in those elections, my vote wasn't "wasted", because 1) I freely expressed my views and 2) I think third-parties of all stripes need every bit of support they can find in order to break the political duopoly that is strangling America.

---

Last night on Real Time, Bill and Barney Frank discuss the snowflakes.

That segment starts at the 4:38 mark if you don't want to listen to them trash the GOP attempts to strip health care from Americans.

I didn't watch the entire vid, only the segment you singled out, but they're both absolutely right. Another way of saying it is the old saw that "politics is the art of the possible." You work with what you have because a partial success is better than a total failure.

[FFaith]

Bush did kill over a million people while torturing others and bringing in the era of mass surveillance, while David Duke would have endorsed whatever Republican was on top, no matter what.

[Emphasis added -- Thump]

I'd like to see an unbiased source for the emboldened claim, if you please?

Started a war that led to over a million deaths (Iraq). I didn't just mean deaths by bullet or bomb at the hands of US military. I mean all in all. Starvation and Sunni vs Shia killings included. These things were a result of the neo-cons deciding to go to war.

[Thumpalumpacus]

[Emphasis added -- Thump]

I'd like to see an unbiased source for the emboldened claim, if you please?

Started a war that led to over a million deaths (Iraq). I didn't just mean deaths by bullet or bomb at the hands of US military. I mean all in all. Starvation and Sunni vs Shia killings included. These things were a result of the neo-cons deciding to go to war.

I was asking for a reputable source, not a repeat of the claim.

[FFaith]

Started a war that led to over a million deaths (Iraq). I didn't just mean deaths by bullet or bomb at the hands of US military. I mean all in all. Starvation and Sunni vs Shia killings included. These things were a result of the neo-cons deciding to go to war.

I was asking for a reputable source, not a repeat of the claim.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I was asking for a reputable source, not a repeat of the claim.

RT America is reputable? I hadn't heard of them, so I looked them up, and here's what the Wiki had to say:

RT America is a TV channel based in Washington, D.C., and part of the RT network, a global multilingual television news network based in Moscow, Russia. RT is a non-profit organization in part funded by the Russian government. RT America also has studios and bureaus in New York City, Miami, and Los Angeles.[2][3] The channel is the home and the production base of RT's U.S. based programs.

RT America focuses on covering news in the United States from an alternative perspective. Programs are hosted by American journalists. Similarly, most guests are American (and sometimes Canadian) activists, academics, speakers and analysts with alternative perspectives on "mainstream" issues. The channel covers issues that see lesser coverage in the mainstream media, such as using non-GMO ingredients in foods, corporatism, growing wealth inequality, corruption in politics, peace and environmental issues.

... and later in the article:

On March 5, 2014, RT America anchor Liz Wahl resigned on air, claiming RT was a propaganda machine for Vladimir Putin. She was recorded as saying:

"I cannot be part of a network funded by the Russian government that whitewashes the actions of Putin. I am proud to be an American and believe in disseminating the truth. And that is why, after this newscast, I am resigning."

In a March 2014 Politico article, Wahl expanded on that statement, saying, "For about two and a half years. I’d looked the other way as the network smeared America for the sake of making the Kremlin look better by comparison, while it sugarcoated atrocities by one brutal dictator after another."

That doesn't strike me as reputable, when even its own employees complain about its bias.

And the IPP themselves can be biased, are they not? The editor of the report referenced in the above news show refers to her organization as "the IPPNW as a medical-political peace organization". And they state immediately in the report that their numbers are estimates arising from statistics.

I'm not watching the Youtube you've embedded due to my limited data, but I have downloaded the report and am reading it. I suspect they may be adding deaths from disparate causes into the count, or have other issues with their "statistical estimates". An estimate is only as good as the formula used to arrive at it, and equations to can harbor biases.

[FFaith]

Of course RT is a Russian propaganda network, just like every mainstream network in the US is a propaganda network. The doctors group doesn't work for RT. I'm not certain how reliable the numbers are but the one million plus number has been put out there numerous times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORB_survey...casualties

[Thumpalumpacus]

Of course RT is a Russian propaganda network, just like every mainstream network in the US is a propaganda network. The doctors group doesn't work for RT. I'm not certain how reliable the numbers are but the one million plus number has been put out there numerous times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORB_survey...casualties

There's numerous disagreements about those numbers, is my point. And even the study that the RT reported on so enthusiastically admits inside its own report that it is a statistical estimate, rather than hard numbers.

I'm no Bush apologist. I never voted for him, and I marched against the war in Iraq before it was even launched because the stench of horseshit was strong with that one.

[Divinity]

Pretty sure Hillary wouldn't have:

-Criticized Puerto Rico before sending aid when they most need it
-Spent more time on Colin Kaepernick than... literally anything else
-Practically declared war on North Korea via twitter
-Spent more time inflating her own balls than on... literally anything else.
-Condemned "BOTH SIDES" when one side was fucking Nazi's who ran someone over.