45 advocates forced ritual in NFL...

[GUBU]

That's not what the knuckle-draggers want to hear though. 

They are the "my country right or wrong" crowd.




(As long as the president is white, that is.)

Not even that. To be "my country, right or wrong" they would have to be intelligent enoigh to realise, like Kipling, that their country can and does do wrong.

[A Theist]

I remember when two US Olympians made a raised fist salute at the Olympics....and 'Murrica lost its shit as it does so easily.

I can remember George Foreman waving a small American flag in the middle of a boxing ring after winning the Olympic gold medal when he stopped a commie opponent in two rounds.....and America cheered.

Nothing's holding your commie ass here. You can pack your shit and move out of the country at any time if you hate it here that much.

[Brian37]

I remember when two US Olympians made a raised fist salute at the Olympics....and 'Murrica lost its shit as it does so easily.

I can remember George Foreman waving a small American flag in the middle of a boxing ring after winning the Olympic gold medal when he stopped a commie opponent in two rounds.....and America cheered.

Nothing's holding your commie ass here. You can pack your shit and move out of the country at any time if you hate it here that much.

Holy fuck, you have no goddamned fucking clue what oppression is. Because we know you are full of shit does not mean we want Stalin's Russia asshole.

Atlass our resident Muslim comes from a part of the world where if you say boo, that can get you murdered. You are simply being a fucking crybaby.

Now asshole, those players are not saying they hate America nor are the fans, like me saying we hate America. Read the fucking first Amendment, it isn't just there for you only when you get what you want. It applies to everyone asshole.

"the right to petition the government for a redress of grievance" is completely in line with the first part of that amendment talking about FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Just like you have the right to appeal to a court, protest is a form of expressing your concern that your rights are not being respected. That ability to PROTEST isn't in any way saying you hate America, but that you want it to do better. 

Those players are not angry because they are rich. They are protesting how the economy and justice system affects the minority communities they are connected to and come from and have family in. 

NOBODY likes dictcators fuckface, so please, take your false persecution bullshit and shove it.

---

A_Theist, there ARE Christians whom are persecuted. Coptic Christians and Kurdish Christians living in parts of the middle east. But that does not mean America is perfect. Pointing out our problems isn't condemning our problems but pointing them out so we can work to improve.

Pull your fucking head out of your ass. Nobody wants us to become North Korea. Nobody wants us to become Stalin's Russia. But we do have a jackass baiting everyone whom does not give one fling fuck how much division he creates. Even the billionaire owners whom supported TRUMP are upset with this, so again, you cant point to us asshole.

Demanding forced ritual are what Saudi Arabia and Iran demand. Forced ritual is what Hitler demanded. Forced ritual is what Stalin demanded. If it were not for our First Amendment, and our ability to PROTEST, we would still have slavery, women would still not have the right to vote, we would still have segregated schools and segregated sports.

NOBODY is being anti American by pointing out real problems that exist.

No asshole, I am not a Commie for agreeing with the players and owners of the NFL.

[Aroura]

Is Americas finest value freedom, or not? Does it include freedom to, as some see it, disrespect our national symbols? Of course it does. Does it include the freedom to boycott those people, and even call them names? Completely. That is your right. Have at it.

Average people have every right to piss and moan about anything they want, without fear of persecution by government or other powerful organizations. But that is the point. This isn't about kneeling, or boycotting, or who's the most patriotic, the kneeler or the boycotters. It is about how the highest office in the land, a man who has the freedom to also not watch any games, or invest his private money in organizations that don't uphold his supposed private ideals btw, is instead choosing to use his public office to encourage officially penalizing people for simply excercising this right. That's the problem here! Kneel, don't kneel, it's all the same freedoms. But neither group should be officially punished, either by law or by an employer. And certainly the person who supposedly represents our highest ideals shouldn't be encouraging the curtailing of YOUR rights. Right?

[Amarok]

1.And if Muhammad Ali  were still with us .He would be on side with the brave men who protested today because they were expressing what he had already said decades earlier .  

2. Criticizing your country does not mean you hate it . It means you think it's less then what it should be . A jingoist fuck wit like you would never get it. 

[Brian37]

Is Americas finest value freedom, or not? Does it include freedom to, as some see it, disrespect our national symbols? Of course it does. Does it include the freedom to boycott those people, and even call them names? Completely. That is your right. Have at it.

Average people have every right to piss and moan about anything they want, without fear of persecution by government or other powerful organizations. But that is the point. This isn't about kneeling, or boycotting, or who's the most patriotic, the kneeler or the boycotters. It is about how the highest office in the land, a man who has the freedom to also not watch any games, or invest his private money in organizations that don't uphold his supposed private ideals btw, is instead choosing to use his public office to encourage officially penalizing people for simply excercising this right.  That's the problem here! Kneel, don't kneel, it's all the same freedoms. But neither group should be officially punished, either by law or by an employer. And certainly the person who supposedly represents our highest ideals shouldn't be encouraging the curtailing of YOUR rights. Right?

^^^^^^This right here is what is so fucking irritating to see morons demand blind loyalty and read this and completely ignore what the sane are saying.

And for a believer to bitch and moan and cry about how we are the bad guys after YEARS of posting here is not only ironic, but hypocritical. If atheists here hated freedom so much the admins here and the owners of the website would ban every believer at the first hint of theist claims.

The ability to speak to power, no matter what side of any issue you are on is what a free society values. The Nazis demanded ritual homage to their flag. North Korea forces it's citizens to grovel to their flag, and to the Kim family. And it isn't just atheists whom support the players, I have no doubt Martin Luther King Jr, if alive today, would also be on the side of the players. I have no doubt if Ann Frank were alive today she too would be on the side of the players.

I am an American, not a communist, and I hate dictators as much as anyone else. But I am not blind to the fact that America has despite ending segregation, I am not blind to the inequality that unfortunately still exists. Nobody saying that, no black person or white person who accepts this is demanding a nanny state. What we are saying is that this needs to be addressed, and it is not being addressed to a great enough degree.

Liberals would love nothing more than for race to be left out of it. We would love nothing more than for cops and blacks and whites to get along. We would love nothing more than for urban and suburban and rural Americans to ALL have stable lives so they don't have to choose between food, medical bills or utilities. We would love to not hear about blacks dying in the custody of police. 

The only way America is going to solve the divisions is to stop ignoring them or over simplifying them to "what is your problem" and "just do it". The GOP for decades has successfully brought race issues up as bait to keep those divisions. Now they claim we are the ones making it about "identity politics". No, responding to what you did not start is not the same as starting it.

The real problem has always been for both poor urban blacks and poor rural whites and the middle class as well, has been lack of economic stability. But it still remains ON AVERAGE, that minorities are affected more negatively ON AVERAGE. So when the right complains about how everything is liberals fault or blacks fault this simply shows their ignorance. I am not a "social justice" warrior. I am not a Commie. I do not want a one party fascist state.

But yea, I am fucking tired of the right falsely vilifying liberals and minorities for pointing out real problems that do exist.

---

Most of the time I hate Jerry Jones, the Cowboy owner, but seeing the clips of last night seeing ALL the Cowboy's players along with him basically telling 45 to fuck off, was a thing of beauty.

So at least until the Cowboys play my Skins, I am a Cowboy fan as well.

[Thumpalumpacus]

"America -- love it or leave it!"

Yeah, fuck off.

Maybe the Moron-in-Chief should worry about things like, you know, getting timely assistance to the Americans in Puerto Rico who have no electricity, little fuel, and are running out of food and water. Fuckhead.


The upper image was taken on 24 July. The lower was 25 Sept.

[Mister Agenda]

I remember when two US Olympians made a raised fist salute at the Olympics....and 'Murrica lost its shit as it does so easily.

I can remember George Foreman waving a small American flag in the middle of a boxing ring after winning the Olympic gold medal when he stopped a commie opponent in two rounds.....and America cheered.

Nothing's holding your commie ass here. You can pack your shit and move out of the country at any time if you hate it here that much.

If you don't like staying here, licking the boots of authority, then leave! This is Amurika, we con't cotton to people exercising their rights around these parts!

---

"America -- love it or leave it!"

Yeah, fuck off.

Maybe the Moron-in-Chief should worry about things like, you know, getting timely assistance to the Americans in Puerto Rico who have no electricity, little fuel, and are running out of food.  Fuckhead.

What they really mean is 'America--agree with me about whatever the topic is, or leave!'

[Brian37]

"America -- love it or leave it!"

Yeah, fuck off. I put my ass on the line for this country, unlike you. He's welcome here, just as you are, no matter how fucking stupid you can be at times.

That goes for anyone. Yea, even A Theist is welcome here. I would say to him however, while I am not demanding he leaves, I still say and stand by the fact that I really do not think he understands what real oppression is. I would say he has a very narrow view of the world. 

I would say if you want to know what real oppression is, visit parts of the world where expressing dissent can get you murdered by mobs, and or the state. Then come back and bitch about others protesting.

45 is not defending freedom, he is using very dangerous rhetoric to drive a wedge between the classes and races. As I said in many posts protesting to bring light to real problems isn't saying you hate America, it is saying you care enough to bring light to those problems so we as a nation can improve.

But when a politician makes demands of forced ritual, that is not a western value. When a politician makes demands of forced ritual that is the very dangerous divisive rhetoric that has the potential long term to erode the concepts on checks on power.

Hitler and the Nazis demanded you stand ans salute their flag. Kim Jong Un demands you stand and worship him and solute his flag. Stalin also had those forced rituals. 

And what is utter nonsense is that those on the right forgot or ignore Supreme Court history in regards to forced ritual. It was not communists or atheists, who brought the case about the pledge being forced. Religious people sued in district court to allow their children to sit out the pledge. The Supreme Court agreed.

No, I am not talking about more current cases with the words "under God, but the older cases that addressed the unconstitutional forced ritual of the entire ritual.

http://education.findlaw.com/student-rig...ation.html

Jehova's Witnesses were the ones whom filed the suit to get the mandated ritual struck down.

The reason you don't use government to mandate forced oaths/rituals including prayer, secular or religious, is because we are not a 1 party state, we are not a theocracy. The founders knew how divided the colonies were prior to the Constitution. They knew, while many of them were deeply religious, most of them were deists, all were very suspicious of forced rituals of any kind. 

America is basically a contract of mutual participation and consent with a constitution that DOES NOT set up social pecking orders favoring one segment of society over another.

Do not assume why someone does not take part in a ritual. Do not vilify them because they do not partake in a ritual. Americans are not clones of each other nor should we demand forced ritual. 

When you do take an oath it is voluntary as it should be. Just like nobody can force you to attend a Mosque or Synagogue or Hindu Temple. The National Anthem is a ritual, not a legal contract. The pledge is also a ritual and not a legal contract. You most certainly can express your patriotism by partaking in them, but they are not things that should be forced on anyone. 

The only legal contract as an oath that is required is the Oath of Office, but even that is voluntary because the one attempting to get that office is not being forced to make the attempt to get that office. 

I love America, no, not everything about it, lots of it needs improvement. But I do love the fact that I can protest, and speak to power without fear of oppression. If the GOP or their supporters stupidly think they are the only ones who have those rights well, what can I say. NO, you do not own a monopoly on the right to protest, so fuck you.

[A Theist]

"America -- love it or leave it!"

Yeah, fuck off. I put my ass on the line for this country, unlike you. He's welcome here, just as you are, no matter how fucking stupid you can be at times.

That goes for anyone. Yea, even A Theist is welcome here. 

Why thank you, Brian. I appreciate the invite and the warm welcome. 

Just as those millionaire NFL mother fuckers can exercise their rights to dishonor the National Anthem just to protest one person, namely the president, I have equal rights to be critical of their actions as does all those fans who booed them. If Min and company find it so bad in this country there's no law holding them here. Anyone who hates it here that much is free to leave whenever they choose. Just as you have the right to voice your criticisms of this country I have the right to voice my support for it.