"Militia", what that meant then.

[Minimalist]

-and now we have a massive (and professional) standing military.  So much for not upkeeping vessels of war in time of peace, eh? 

Worse, even.  We have an 800,000 man police army of occupation on top of that!

[The Grand Nudger]

@Shell
I get that in hindsight and summary you agree with this position or that position from the best minds.  So do I.  Our current appraisal of any given position was not what was used to stir up the rabble, however.  

It never is, intellectualism has never worked on the masses.  Questionable slogans are far more effective. 

@Min
Call me when authority ever decides that what it really needs is -fewer- paid enforcers.

[Shell B]

You're going to have to show me how the slogan was questionable. Was there a colonist in Parliament I didn't know about?

[Tiberius]

https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?co...recNum=846 gives an effective example of what a militia meant back in the day. The definition hadn't changed since Jefferson's time.

The problem is, the amendment uses the word "militia" as reasoning for the right, which then specifically says "right of the people", not "right of the militia". "People" pretty much covers...well, everyone.

Also a fun definition fact while we're here. "well regulated" just meant "working", had nothing to do with legislative regulations.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You're going to have to show me how the slogan was questionable. Was there a colonist in Parliament I didn't know about?

There were several members who were very sympathetic toward the colonists.

---

https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?co...recNum=846 gives an effective example of what a militia meant back in the day. The definition hadn't changed since Jefferson's time.

The problem is, the amendment uses the word "militia" as reasoning for the right, which then specifically says "right of the people", not "right of the militia". "People" pretty much covers...well, everyone.

Also a fun definition fact while we're here. "well regulated" just meant "working", had nothing to do with legislative regulations.

Well regulated meant they were trained.

[Tiberius]

Well regulated meant they were trained.

Your source?

This site suggested several OED quotes which don't seem to indicate it had much to do with training: http://constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm

I looked up one of the earlier quotes and found it in this book from 1814: https://books.google.com/books?id=GGs3AA...22&f=false

[The Grand Nudger]

So, when are we going to get the working -or- trained militias up and running, what with being necessary and all...I wonder?  I can handle, maybe....6 recruits every 13-36 week on average.  I'll need the use of Benning and a handful of helicopters and field pieces.

[Minimalist]

"People" pretty much covers...well, everyone.

Not in the 1780's it didn't.

To wit:  women, blacks, indians,

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Well regulated meant they were trained.

Your source?

This site suggested several OED quotes which don't seem to indicate it had much to do with training: http://constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm

I looked up one of the earlier quotes and found it in this book from 1814: https://books.google.com/books?id=GGs3AA...22&f=false

Did you read the law I posted?

[The Grand Nudger]

Before the revolutionary war some* landed whites could vote for a range of elected officials up to and including their colonial governors.  By 1780, many landed whites who previously could votye (say..white women) had this right stripped from them.  Additionally, catholics, jews, an quakers were rarely given the right to vote regardless of whether or not they were taken to be white or landed.  It was a state by state issue. The states attached a variety of qualifiers.

The right to vote wasn't actually in the constitution until it was amended in 1870..and many of the framers thought that nothing good could come of enfranchising more people.

Fun fact, the attitudes of the early american government and the previous colonial government just weren;t much different..mostly because those who were in government prior to the revolution found themselves in government -after- the revolution. Their experience was a valuable commodity.