What would it take to change your mind?

[FutureAndAHope]

What would make me change my mind and become an athiest, only if I forgot the Miracles and comunication God has had with me over the years. Because I know God has spoken to me I can never become an athiest. I would be untrue to my self if I denied all the communication.

[CoxRox]

What would make me change my mind and become an athiest, only if I forgot the Miracles and comunication God has had with me over the years. Because I know God has spoken to me I can never become an athiest. I would be untrue to my self if I denied all the communication.

Do you ever doubt that it is God who speaks to you and that it could just be your own inner voice?

[Edwardo Piet]

Yep. FutureAndAHope (mind if I call you FAAH or FAH? or FutureHope?)Its infinitely more probable that its just your thoughts and not God's voice. God is more improbable than the universe itself. If you need something as improbable as "God" to explain the universe. Why don't you need something to explain God?

Also I'm wondering. Do you believe God only speaks to some people? Or to all believers in God? Or just to all Christians? Or do you believe he speaks to everyone?

Do you believe God speaks to me? Lol. Because if so I can tell you - my thoughts are my thoughts. Not a Sky God's . They're my thoughts because I'm thinking them. Right? I know that can't be proven but I mean cmon. No one else is thinking for me. Certainly no extremely improbable Sky God that almost certainly doesn't exist.
evf

[bozo]

What would make me change my mind and become an athiest, only if I forgot the Miracles and comunication God has had with me over the years. Because I know God has spoken to me I can never become an athiest. I would be untrue to my self if I denied all the communication.

What's so special about you that " he " talks to you???

[Edwardo Piet]

Well perhaps "God" tells him in his thoughts that he's special. That's why and how God speaks to him. lol
"You're special so this is proof that I, God, would talk to you. You can know that this is God talking to you because like I just said - you're special and that is why I, God, am talking to you."
Circular lol
So why FutureHope? Why do you believe that God talks to you?
evf

[lukec]

Yes- when you say god has spoken to you, what exactly do you mean? As in, you got a feeling He was with you? Or that he was talking to you directly? And which miracles are you referring to, the ones in the bible or ones which you have experienced yourself?

[FutureAndAHope]

Yes- when you say god has spoken to you, what exactly do you mean? As in, you got a feeling He was with you? Or that he was talking to you directly? And which miracles are you referring to, the ones in the bible or ones which you have experienced yourself?

I will share some examples of him speaking and Miracles.

God Speaking to me
============

One morning I woke up and walked into the hall and I heard a voice say to me (and I got a feeling with it) "How would you like to be stabbed in the valley?", I was a little scared as I had planned to go into the "valley" that day. I thought maybe God is displeased with me. The valley was the tough end of town. I went any way, and walked upto an aboriginal man, and asked him out to church. He told me "I am an atheist, I don't believe in God. I just said "fine", and hoped to change his mind. He told me "This is why don't believe", he opened up his shirt and all over the front of his body were scar marks. He said to me, "I was attacked and stabbed by a mad man in the valley some years back, and spent months recovering in hospital". I then began to realize why I had been asked "how would I like it". I was asked by an aboriginal elder to take him home, On the way home I bought up the story with him. Some weeks latter he came out to church and became a Christian.

God performing a Miracle
================

I used to work for an elderly man by the name of Peter. His daughter had come down from Sydney to Tasmania to renovate a house for sale. I was recruited to do some painting outside the house. While at the house I was asked to come inside and help move some furniture. When there waiting to move a wardrobe she said to me "This is going to kill my back it is sore all the time". I asked her if she minded if I prayed for her back. She said "fine go ahead". So I prayed for her back in Jesus name. I was a bit worried really because I thought I would feel like a dill if nothing happened. Latter she told me "my back is good now". Every time I asked in the future over the years she constantly said "It is good". As further proof her family asked me to pray for a sick friend of theirs. We also lived in a house that was up for sale, a neighbour had been spreading false stories about the house being haunted so they could buy the property and scare off other potential buyers. A realestate agent asked Irus, Peters wife "Is the house haunted" to which she replied "It can't be they do hand on healing in there". p.s. having lived there the house was not haunted it was all just a story.

[CoxRox]

FutureAndAhope, would you pray for me? Would you ask that I would know for sure if there is a God and if Jesus is who he says he is? I'm a bit embarassed asking this directly on this forum, but I ask nevertheless.

p.s, I've 'asked' this myself many times over the years but never seem to get an 'answer'.

many thanks.

[Demonaura]

There are a few problems I see right off the bat FutureAndHope. From the top about your story about god speaking to you.

While it would be a remarkable coincedence that you heard a definative voice that exactly matched up with your experience that day it's not that uncommon in a general sense. I cannot possibly count the things I think in my head (even just in the morning) with a voice not my own. By this I mean I think words that do not sound like me talking, I am in control and know that it is still me but, sometimes my mind will wanter and say whatever and I have to stop for a second and thinking about why I thought that.

Secondly, it can't really be used as evidence even for yourself. You have no way of knowing if you actually heard anything that morning or if you made it up later. I have a personal story in my history that suggested I have limited psychic powers (just hear me out ok lol). I had a dream that I was in an unfamiliar house as a child and I opened the back door to go play and all the dogs rushed out and they weren't allowed outside so they got in trouble. The next day it happened. Or did it? Did I really dream that at all or was it simply a moment of deja vu? I can't know for sure, that is why personal experience and memory is not a reliable form of evidence. If many people around me suddenly said they also had the same dream, and we talked about it it would have a little more merit but, not enough to mean anything conclusive yet. We would need to reproduce the event in some reliable way to consider it, or even consider that I had this dream to start with.

Yout example of a miracle is a common one. Our bodies heal naturally, and very well I might add. Your prayer could have been well timed, or it literally could have been the fact that you supported him that gave him a reason to work harder at healing. After all we have proven that your mental state affects healing (Laugher is the best medicine.ect). In this case your support was of benefit but, the beleif and all the sacrifices you make (and dont try to tell me you dont make any) to your beleif in god are not needed to help people.

The other common reply to such a story, why did god focus on this one guy? Because you prayed for him? He seems to be handling alright by himself, as I explained your support might have been enough. Why not give his divine miracles where it actually makes a difference? A village that will have a terrible food shortage because there has not been rain for weeks and the crps are dry and dying? A terminally ill cancer patient leaving behind two young daughters with an abusive father or none at all? Suddenly this mans healing back seems like a petty prayer with selfish intentions when theres so many other people you could REALLY help with your ability to make god do what you ask.



I'll use a real example given to me by a friend. Of why he is christian. I hope I am not violating any boundries but, to be sure I wont say anything about him other than that he is christian and the following: His chosen example of a miracle was me. He didn't have a whole lot of friends when he was younger and his family prayed to meet a good friend for him as he entered high school. Apparently I was the answer. First point: Our school had over 2000 students at the time, we met in an elective course that we both signed up for because of an interest. How odd that we shared interests when we signed up for courses we were interested in!
Second point: He beleives god knows all. Therefore god knew I was going to quickly research Religion and become an Agnostic Atheist who is also Anti-religious. I made him think about his faith, a sin. His book commands him to kill me, specifically and clearly with no room for interpretation. (my theory is he is religious only because he knows nothing else and indocrination from birth is a hard thing to break.)

Hmm, not such a great miracle anymore? Sorta unrelated to your examples but, something I wanted to share. I look forward to your reply, I admit I would like to get into debate because I beleive it is a great way for two parties to learn and it makes for a great mental workout.

If this is nonsensical then my bad, I wrote this at 6AM and I am literally swaying in my chair about to QWERTYdive. Time for bed.

EDIT: Holy alien cowcrap monster post! Sorry for the long read! Guess I got into a too much!

[bozo]

Yes- when you say god has spoken to you, what exactly do you mean? As in, you got a feeling He was with you? Or that he was talking to you directly? And which miracles are you referring to, the ones in the bible or ones which you have experienced yourself?

I will share some examples of him speaking and Miracles.

God Speaking to me
============

One morning I woke up and walked into the hall and I heard a voice say to me (and I got a feeling with it) "How would you like to be stabbed in the valley?", I was a little scared as I had planned to go into the "valley" that day. I thought maybe God is displeased with me. The valley was the tough end of town. I went any way, and walked upto an aboriginal man, and asked him out to church. He told me "I am an atheist, I don't believe in God. I just said "fine", and hoped to change his mind. He told me "This is why don't believe", he opened up his shirt and all over the front of his body were scar marks. He said to me, "I was attacked and stabbed by a mad man in the valley some years back, and spent months recovering in hospital". I then began to realize why I had been asked "how would I like it". I was asked by an aboriginal elder to take him home, On the way home I bought up the story with him. Some weeks latter he came out to church and became a Christian.

God performing a Miracle
================

I used to work for an elderly man by the name of Peter. His daughter had come down from Sydney to Tasmania to renovate a house for sale. I was recruited to do some painting outside the house. While at the house I was asked to come inside and help move some furniture. When there waiting to move a wardrobe she said to me "This is going to kill my back it is sore all the time". I asked her if she minded if I prayed for her back. She said "fine go ahead". So I prayed for her back in Jesus name. I was a bit worried really because I thought I would feel like a dill if nothing happened. Latter she told me "my back is good now". Every time I asked in the future over the years she constantly said "It is good". As further proof her family asked me to pray for a sick friend of theirs. We also lived in a house that was up for sale, a neighbour had been spreading false stories about the house being haunted so they could buy the property and scare off other potential buyers. A realestate agent asked Irus, Peters wife "Is the house haunted" to which she replied "It can't be they do hand on healing in there". p.s. having lived there the house was not haunted it was all just a story.

DO YOU MAKE A HABIT OUT OF APPROACHING TOTAL STRANGERS ( ALWAYS MEN? ) AND INVITING THEM TO CHURCH?

SUPERMAN-LIKE, IF YOU GET RESULTS FOR PEOPLE BY PRAYING, WHY DON'T YOU SOLVE ALL THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS?