If God is a witness to all things...

[Cyberman]

If God is a witness to all things.....

That's a big "if."  Until you can demonstrate empirically that your god actually exists, all you have is empty words praising a fiction.

"If" is the overused and overloaded workhorse of the god peddlers. I'm always amazed at the faith they have in it, that they hang their entire arguments on it. Such a heavy burden for a two-letter word. Which explains why they immediately declare victory, before the poor thing snaps under the strain and their whole world falls in a sad little heap at their feet.

[Astreja]

Such a heavy burden for a two-letter word. Which explains why they immediately declare victory, before the poor thing snaps under the strain and their whole world falls in a sad little heap at their feet.

That's actually more poetic than the OP.

[Cyberman]

Thanks. It's something I worked on a while back for a youtube video I was going to do. Always wanted to use it in conversation.

[bennyboy]

If God is a witness to all things.....

Then all things would exist according to his perception.

His perception would be a perfectly accurate judgment to what they are.

And if that is true, the nature of things would be that they are illuminated to existence by his vision.


Does something see us as we truly are?
Is it us or something else that sees?
If it is us and we misjudge do we disappear?
And if it's not us, what is this vision that sees us exactly as we are?
Or there is no accurate us,
And our self-analysis is close enough.
But close enough to what?
If not the true accurate self?
Which again is defined by what?
Or do we exist without requiring perception?
But look at yourself and look at your properties?
Are they not all by awareness and perception?
Who is keeping score of your actions?
What maintains the image of your personality?
What makes you inherit your actions?

If god were my beagle, we could say that god likes cheese and walkies and that his name is Victor.

[zebo-the-fat]

If god was an evil cruel being that would explain ebola, typhoid and malaria

[brewer]

Could any argument/position for god/religion exist without the word "if"?

[Cyberman]

[Cyberman]

Could any argument/position for god/religion exist without the word "if"?

Yep. "If God doesn't exist, this argument doesn't work" is never convincing.

[Brian37]

If God is a witness to all things.....

Then all things would exist according to his perception.

His perception would be a perfectly accurate judgment to what they are.

And if that is true, the nature of things would be that they are illuminated to existence by his vision.


Does something see us as we truly are?
Is it us or something else that sees?
If it is us and we misjudge do we disappear?
And if it's not us, what is this vision that sees us exactly as we are?
Or there is no accurate us,
And our self-analysis is close enough.
But close enough to what?
If not the true accurate self?
Which again is defined by what?
Or do we exist without requiring perception?
But look at yourself and look at your properties?
Are they not all by awareness and perception?
Who is keeping score of your actions?
What maintains the image of your personality?
What makes you inherit your actions?

MK, I can't count the number of times I have said to you, EVERY, EVERY , EVERY religion thinks they picked the right god.

Catholic Lady thinks she picked the right God.

I've debated Jews too, and they think the same thing.

While Buddhists don't have a god, they'll tell you they found the correct ultimate path.

Hindus have their Gods too.

I really don't want to see you sink into needless abyss trying to chase a utopia that does not exist. There are 7 billion humans with countless different beliefs and we will never agree on all things all the time. But what we can do as a species is stop killing each other.

MK you really do sound like I did wanting Ann McCarthy to love me. I wanted that cheerleader to love me so bad, but the truth was it was me, it was not love, it was my hormones, my desire to feel loved, a desire to feel like I was wanted.

The only way you are going to be at peace, isn't to live a fantasy and dream, but to be yourself and accept there are simply things you cannot change. 

Don't try to force the world to conform to you. It won't. You can debate, and yes even rant like I do, but neither you or I were around 4 billion years ago, and we wont be around 5 billion years from now. 

There is lots you can rightfully bitch about about the west and I would be the first to agree. But I am as tired of utopia hero peddling from all, from Islam and Christianity and Jews. The world needs less violence, not more heros.

[Mystic]

If God was the witness, we would value things believing they are defined and have judgment.

If God was not the witness, we would not believe that about anyone, though we may deceive ourselves about it.

True belief is knowledge and love speaks a sacred language and is it what looks towards value and seeks to see it.

---

Catholic Lady thinks she picked the right God.

From what I understand, it is always better to have most answers right on an exam, than no answers at all. Yes, we should all seek to get 100%, especially if we can reassess our answers, but no attempt is the worse.

*smiles*