If God is a witness to all things...

[Brian37]

If God is a witness to all things.....

Then all things would exist according to his perception.

His perception would be a perfectly accurate judgment to what they are.

And if that is true, the nature of things would be that they are illuminated to existence by his vision.


Does something see us as we truly are?
Is it us or something else that sees?
If it is us and we misjudge do we disappear?
And if it's not us, what is this vision that sees us exactly as we are?
Or there is no accurate us,
And our self-analysis is close enough.
But close enough to what?
If not the true accurate self?
Which again is defined by what?
Or do we exist without requiring perception?
But look at yourself and look at your properties?
Are they not all by awareness and perception?
Who is keeping score of your actions?
What maintains the image of your personality?
What makes you inherit your actions?

Don't look now MK, but you gave away your bad logic in the title of the thread with the very first word.

"IF"

"IF" only Ann McCarthy had fallen in love with me.

"IF" only I had won the lottery.

"IF" only I never had to pee or poop.

"IF" only they had stopped making Star Wars movies after the first 3 originals.

"IF" only the NFL football Washington Redskins would stop sucking year after year.

"IF" only humans really did have multiple arms like the Hindu gods, I could really please myself even better.

"IF" 

"If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a party."

"IF" Christians are right.......
"IF" Jews are right......
"IF" Buddhists are right......
"IF" Hindus are right...........

See how that works? You simply swallowed a proposition because it appeals to your desires, that is not evidence. 

Pleas MK try to understand we are NOT trying to hurt you, but merely trying to get you to consider that was then and this is now.

[Mystic]

You guys either don't understand the purpose of that if or do and are playing a stupid card that only makes you guys look more foolish though you wish it for to make me look foolish.

[LadyForCamus]

MK, adding a creepy smile at the end of every post does not lend credence to your rambling nonsense.

[Brian37]

You guys either don't understand the purpose of that if or do and are playing a stupid card that only makes you guys look more foolish though you wish it for to make me look foolish.

MK, I really don't want to hear you play false victim.

I was bullied as a kid. I can guess with you, you have a very authoritarian family, alot like my parents were as teachers with me. They tried to mold me as "boys don't cry, and be a man, and buck it up." They had good intent, but they saw me as something to mold, not raise. You don't train a child, you raise a child. 

On top of that, I had NO friends until high school, so I spend my time isolated in my house, or running from nothing but guy bullies who beat me up for no other good reason than because they could.

We really are NOT here to hurt you, and we are not treating you any differently with our objections to your logic than we do with Christians here.

We are GLAD you came back instead of doing something harmful to yourself or others off the web. We'd rather have you here leaving it at words with us, than doing something dangerous in real life.

We are not your enemy, we are your fellow human being. But we also don't want to lie to you and pretend we agree with your logic. 

I am not being sarcastic one bit or kidding one bit when I say I see alot of myself in you. I used to be dreamy eyed like you. I used to needlessly be angry at the world because it didn't conform to me. 

I AM VERY SERIOUS in saying you can help yourself and be at peace with yourself, by stop trying to chase utopias that do not  exist. I am trying to HELP YOU, not hurt you.

If Atlass33 can handle us without freaking out, and Catholic Lady can handle us without freaking out, so can you. 

We are not going to have you arrested, or thrown in prison for merely picking on your logic. It really will be ok if humans don't agree with you. It really will be ok if you try to consider others are trying to help you, not hurt you.

[Mystic]

Thank you for trying to help me Brian, you are proof people should primarily rely on God's help through his books and chosen ones coupled to manifest and explain the holy books.

[Brian37]

Thank you for trying to help me Brian, you are proof people should primarily rely on God's help through his books and chosen ones coupled to manifest and explain the holy books.

You need to seriously do something for yourself. Stop dreaming about being some sort of hero. That is not your logic talking, that is your youthful angst talking. I see that same angst in myself when I was a teen and young adult. 

There are 7 billion humans on this planet and we will NOT always say nice things or be polite to each other. Don't drive yourself nuts trying to get others to conform to what you think should be. I did that and I can tell you it made me a doormat.

I promise you, like I promise Atlass and Catholic Lady, what I value most over anything else in this world is non violence, even if your claims drive me crazy. If you and I were standing together in a public street, and some asshole threated to beat you up because you were a Muslim, if I couldn't stop it, I would call the police and want them arrested if they did assault you.

ABOVE ALL ELSE, my fellow human is that first. Yes, I bitch and I pick on everyone, but I am not going to want you physically harmed anymore than I want Catholic Lady or Atlass harmed. I simply don't find your claims credible.

It took me alot of growing up to realize that trying to force others to like me and be like me didn't work. Don't torture yourself like that. I did that to myself, so trust me, it isn't worth it.

Be you but don't expect everyone to be like you. We can agree to bitch at each other without seeing each other as enemies. Much like my mom and I would yell at each other but we both knew we loved each other. 

Ok? Trust me, I am not your enemy, but I also don't like lying to people either. I wont lie to you and say I agree with what you claim. I don't do that for Catholic Lady either, and I like her too.

Now give me a big wet sloppy kiss and big hug.....

[Mystic]

Now give me a big wet sloppy kiss and big hug.....

LOL. That made my day.

[drfuzzy]

You guys either don't understand the purpose of that if or do and are playing a stupid card that only makes you guys look more foolish though you wish it for to make me look foolish.

You're peddling your fantasies to people that you KNOW have deliberately and intellectually rejected theistic fantasy.  You're peddling assertions cloaked in horrifically bad non-logic.  You're quoting from ancient, stupid, evil fairy tales as if they should somehow have relevance.   If this, if that, if, if, if, combined with walls of gibberish.  It's completely incomprehensible that you should be wasting your life repeatedly proving that your brain is clearly not working properly.  I feel such pity for you.

[Mister Agenda]

That's a big "if."  Until you can demonstrate empirically that your god actually exists, all you have is empty words praising a fiction.

Read the poem - and if you think about what is proven with the if.... you will realize there is no other way. There is an accurate perceiver to who we are and that makes us inherit our actions if we truly exist, and we surely truly exist.

Nothing is proven with 'ifs'.

[Mystic]

Read the poem - and if you think about what is proven with the if.... you will realize there is no other way. There is an accurate perceiver to who we are and that makes us inherit our actions if we truly exist, and we surely truly exist.

Nothing is proven with 'ifs'.

That is what you convince yourself, but if you go the route of "what if God exists", what would then prove his existence...what would morality be, what would love be, what would light be, what would his reality be relative to us and us to him, what would judgment be, what would be the nature of honor, etc....

Everything will become clear. You will see exactly what would prove God if he exists, does prove him.

It's really that simple.

---

 I feel such pity for you.

I don't think anyone who felt pity for a person would actually say those words.