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Travis Walton versus The Resurrection.
#41
RE: Travis Walton versus The Resurrection.
(November 21, 2017 at 7:15 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:
(November 20, 2017 at 3:05 pm)Godscreated Wrote: Well if you do not know that the Bible speaks of the innumerable stars then why should anyone believe what you say about the Bible speaking of a flat earth, it doesn't and it's been shown here and by Bible scholars. You need to get out of your little sealed up world of lies and join the rest of us who know the truth. You didn't answer my question by the way and no the answer he couldn't count doesn't hold water because you conveniently forget he wrote the book and thus he would have the ability to count.

GC

What the fuck are you talking about?  In book of Genesis stars during the making are only mentioned "he made the stars also." Then the next time stars are mentioned in book of Genesis is when god is saying to Abram "Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them" and Abram apparently counted them because the later verse goes "And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

 God told Abraham that his descendants would be as innumerable as the stars, the whole of the Israelites came from him and so did the Arab nations, way more than 6000.
Abraham trusted God and believed that there were more than the 6000 or so stars that could be seen with the naked eye. Abraham's righteousness as you have shown came from believing what God told him not what he could see.

GC

(November 20, 2017 at 9:03 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(November 20, 2017 at 3:05 pm)Godscreated Wrote:  You totally reject God according to Jesus, He said either you are with me or you are against me. With God there is no inbetween. rejection of God is far more serious than put an name to it like silly idea.

 You must not read much I've said over the years, I do not deal in silly notions like your above character.

GC


I think that Jesus was a Jewish apocalyptic prophet who started life in northern Galilee, but after preaching the end of the world and the deliverance by god from the Romans by the "Son of Man" (likely, an angelic being), he was encouraged by his followers to take his message to Jerusalem.  Shortly after arriving, Jesus went to the Temple, and after hearing him, some Jews took offense; there was an altercation, and Jesus was promptly arrested by the Roman authorities.  They examined him, and likely found him to be a deranged individual; after consulting with the local Jewish authorities (Roman federalism), Jesus was deemed a threat to the public order.  Pilate signed the order (likely, without ever meeting Jesus personally), and a Roman guard administered his punishment.  Once dead Jesus' body was removed from the cross and deposed of in a common grave, likely, being mutilated by wild dogs.

The rest of Jesus' story is legend and embellishment.  i don't believe that he ever said anything close to what you are claiming.

 Where did you get your information, I know it wasn't from the Bible. Made up stories are an atheist specialty and you seem to excel at this. read the Bible it will tell you all you need to know about Jesus and His life.

GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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#42
RE: Travis Walton versus The Resurrection.
(November 13, 2017 at 7:15 am)alpha male Wrote: For one thing, Paul suffered greatly for his testimony and stuck to it. Who's to say Travis would keep it up if he suffered like Paul?

What suffering? Paul was living the life when he became a Christian!
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#43
RE: Travis Walton versus The Resurrection.
(November 22, 2017 at 5:04 am)Godscreated Wrote:  Where did you get your information, I know it wasn't from the Bible. Made up stories are an atheist specialty and you seem to excel at this. read the Bible it will tell you all you need to know about Jesus and His life.

GC

Irony is lost on you, isn't it?
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing."  - Samuel Porter Putnam
 
           

Reply
#44
RE: Travis Walton versus The Resurrection.
(November 12, 2017 at 4:04 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:
(November 12, 2017 at 12:39 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Point of the OP is that eyewitness testimony is often not reliable!

And even more then that considering that it takes only few minutes to check to see that these ufo cases are total fraud and yet there are millions of people that believe in them. That have this great desire to believe in them so much so that they don't care and don't bother to check it out. They don't want to hear the rational side, like Dan Aykroyd video I recently posted.
Or very recently on Halloween there was a video trending on youtube by two guys talking called "Three Bizarre Cases Of Alien Abductions". One of which is Walton's case and at some point one guy mentions Carl Sagan while the other immediately shushes him with "Will you stop with the fucking Carl Sagan already."


Yep, or take as another example all the people taken in by Trump.
Reply
#45
RE: Travis Walton versus The Resurrection.
(November 22, 2017 at 5:04 am)Godscreated Wrote:
(November 21, 2017 at 7:15 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: What the fuck are you talking about?  In book of Genesis stars during the making are only mentioned "he made the stars also." Then the next time stars are mentioned in book of Genesis is when god is saying to Abram "Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them" and Abram apparently counted them because the later verse goes "And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

 God told Abraham that his descendants would be as innumerable as the stars, the whole of the Israelites came from him and so did the Arab nations, way more than 6000.
Abraham trusted God and believed that there were more than the 6000 or so stars that could be seen with the naked eye. Abraham's righteousness as you have shown came from believing what God told him not what he could see.

GC

(November 20, 2017 at 9:03 pm)Jehanne Wrote: I think that Jesus was a Jewish apocalyptic prophet who started life in northern Galilee, but after preaching the end of the world and the deliverance by god from the Romans by the "Son of Man" (likely, an angelic being), he was encouraged by his followers to take his message to Jerusalem.  Shortly after arriving, Jesus went to the Temple, and after hearing him, some Jews took offense; there was an altercation, and Jesus was promptly arrested by the Roman authorities.  They examined him, and likely found him to be a deranged individual; after consulting with the local Jewish authorities (Roman federalism), Jesus was deemed a threat to the public order.  Pilate signed the order (likely, without ever meeting Jesus personally), and a Roman guard administered his punishment.  Once dead Jesus' body was removed from the cross and deposed of in a common grave, likely, being mutilated by wild dogs.

The rest of Jesus' story is legend and embellishment.  i don't believe that he ever said anything close to what you are claiming.

 Where did you get your information, I know it wasn't from the Bible. Made up stories are an atheist specialty and you seem to excel at this. read the Bible it will tell you all you need to know about Jesus and His life.

GC

I do not believe that the Gospel of John contains a single saying of the historical Jesus. I think that the Gospel of Thomas does, however, contain some historical sayings of Jesus. Do you agree? If not, why not?
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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#46
RE: Travis Walton versus The Resurrection.
(November 20, 2017 at 3:05 pm)Godscreated Wrote: [quote='downbeatplumb' pid='1659213' dateline='1511044099']

I don't "reject" god so much as thinks its a silly idea.

Like arm fall off boy. A lesser known super hero. Can you guess his power?
.
(November 20, 2017 at 3:05 pm)Godscreated Wrote:  You totally reject God according to Jesus, He said either you are with me or you are against me. With God there is no inbetween. rejection of God is far more serious than put an name to it like silly idea.

 You must not read much I've said over the years, I do not deal in silly notions like your above character.

The bold is why I am an atheist.
I really do find god to be ridiculous.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








Reply
#47
RE: Travis Walton versus The Resurrection.
(November 22, 2017 at 3:10 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:
(November 20, 2017 at 3:05 pm)Godscreated Wrote:
(November 18, 2017 at 6:28 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: I don't "reject" god so much as thinks its a silly idea.

Like arm fall off boy. A lesser known super hero. Can you guess his power?
.
(November 20, 2017 at 3:05 pm)Godscreated Wrote:  You totally reject God according to Jesus, He said either you are with me or you are against me. With God there is no inbetween. rejection of God is far more serious than put an name to it like silly idea.

 You must not read much I've said over the years, I do not deal in silly notions like your above character.

The bold is why I am an atheist.
I really do find god to be ridiculous.
 That is your choice, just remember all choices have consequences.
GC

(November 22, 2017 at 9:30 am)Jehanne Wrote:
(November 22, 2017 at 5:04 am)Godscreated Wrote:  God told Abraham that his descendants would be as innumerable as the stars, the whole of the Israelites came from him and so did the Arab nations, way more than 6000.
Abraham trusted God and believed that there were more than the 6000 or so stars that could be seen with the naked eye. Abraham's righteousness as you have shown came from believing what God told him not what he could see.

GC


 Where did you get your information, I know it wasn't from the Bible. Made up stories are an atheist specialty and you seem to excel at this. read the Bible it will tell you all you need to know about Jesus and His life.

GC

I do not believe that the Gospel of John contains a single saying of the historical Jesus.  I think that the Gospel of Thomas does, however, contain some historical sayings of Jesus.  Do you agree?  If not, why not?

 I believe the opposite of your belief because men far smarter and guided by God chose what gospels were to be placed in the NT.

GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Reply
#48
RE: Travis Walton versus The Resurrection.
Quote:
(November 23, 2017 at 2:06 am)Jehanne Wrote: I do not believe that the Gospel of John contains a single saying of the historical Jesus.  I think that the Gospel of Thomas does, however, contain some historical sayings of Jesus.  Do you agree?  If not, why not?

 I believe the opposite of your belief because men far smarter and guided by God chose what gospels were to be placed in the NT.

GC

Your knowledge of history is just terrible:

Quote:8. It is not possible that the Gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are. For, since there are four zones of the world in which we live, and four principal winds, while the Church is scattered throughout all the world, and the "pillar and ground" 1 Timothy 3:15 of the Church is the Gospel and the spirit of life; it is fitting that she should have four pillars, breathing out immortality on every side, and vivifying men afresh. From which fact, it is evident that the Word, the Artificer of all, He that sits upon the cherubim, and contains all things, He who was manifested to men, has given us the Gospel under four aspects, but bound together by one Spirit. As also David says, when entreating His manifestation, "You that sits between the cherubim, shine forth." For the cherubim, too, were four-faced, and their faces were images of the dispensation of the Son of God. For, [as the Scripture] says, "The first living creature was like a lion," Revelation 4:7 symbolizing His effectual working, His leadership, and royal power; the second [living creature] was like a calf, signifying [His] sacrificial and sacerdotal order; but "the third had, as it were, the face as of a man,"— an evident description of His advent as a human being; "the fourth was like a flying eagle," pointing out the gift of the Spirit hovering with His wings over the Church. And therefore the Gospels are in accord with these things, among which Christ Jesus is seated. For that according to John relates His original, effectual, and glorious generation from the Father, thus declaring, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 Also, "all things were made by Him, and without Him was nothing made." For this reason, too, is that Gospel full of all confidence, for such is His person. But that according to Luke, taking up [His] priestly character, commenced with Zacharias the priest offering sacrifice to God. For now was made ready the fatted calf, about to be immolated for the finding again of the younger son. Matthew, again, relates His generation as a man, saying, "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham;" and also, "The birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise." This, then, is the Gospel of His humanity; for which reason it is, too, that [the character of] a humble and meek man is kept up through the whole Gospel. Mark, on the other hand, commences with [a reference to] the prophetical spirit coming down from on high to men, saying, "The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as it is written in Esaias the prophet,"— pointing to the winged aspect of the Gospel; and on this account he made a compendious and cursory narrative, for such is the prophetical character. And the Word of God Himself used to converse with the ante-Mosaic patriarchs, in accordance with His divinity and glory; but for those under the law he instituted a sacerdotal and liturgical service. Afterwards, being made man for us, He sent the gift of the celestial Spirit over all the earth, protecting us with His wings. Such, then, as was the course followed by the Son of God, so was also the form of the living creatures; and such as was the form of the living creatures, so was also the character of the Gospel. For the living creatures are quadriform, and the Gospel is quadriform, as is also the course followed by the Lord. For this reason were four principal (καθολικαί) covenants given to the human race: one, prior to the deluge, under Adam; the second, that after the deluge, under Noah; the third, the giving of the law, under Moses; the fourth, that which renovates man, and sums up all things in itself by means of the Gospel, raising and bearing men upon its wings into the heavenly kingdom. (Saint Irenaeus), Against Heresies, Book III, Chapter 11)

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103311.htm

Yep, Saint Irenaeus believed in a flat Earth and that's why there are four Gospels!

You can have it!  It's just a bunch of ignorant nonsense.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
Reply
#49
RE: Travis Walton versus The Resurrection.
(November 23, 2017 at 2:06 am)Godscreated Wrote:  That is your choice, just remember all choices have consequences.
GC


The only consequence it has is that I don't believe silly things and have sunday free. Yay.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








Reply
#50
RE: Travis Walton versus The Resurrection.
(November 23, 2017 at 1:45 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:
(November 23, 2017 at 2:06 am)Godscreated Wrote:  That is your choice, just remember all choices have consequences.
GC


The only consequence it has is that I don't believe silly things and have sunday free. Yay.

And, you're not throwing your hard-earned money away.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
Reply



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