(LONG) "I Don't Know" as a Good Answer in Ethics

[vulcanlogician]

  I actually agree with you, just not for the same reasons.

I would like to hear about this.

It bothers me that I might be question begging. I just don't see how though. I can't quite wrap my head around how science can discover a moral value. What am I missing?

But ignore all that for the moment. What's your argument?

(I'm signing off for tonight. It was really nice talking with you.)

[The Grand Nudger]

Hey, you too bud..I'm about to pass out in shame and ignominy myself.  

I cant see how you might be question begging with the "IDK!" response, personally.....but if what you actually mean to say is that you do know, and what you know is that science simply cant provide the relevant value...then you are proposing something that epicuras himself could have never proposed because he knew no better.  He thought that the stomach was the seat of consciousness (not an uncommon supposition in his day), and could not have known that there was a chemical formulation for the thing he considered the root of value.  

Sweet dreams, amigo.  Pick it up tomorrow?

[Simon Moon]

            Lawrence Krauss, when postulating various theories concerning what might have happened before the big bang will readily admit that cosmologists have no certain answer on the matter. Richard Dawkins, though boasting a comprehensive knowledge of evolutionary science, will admit that he doesn’t know how life formed from non-life. It is to its credit that science is so humble concerning what it doesn’t know. If only theists showed a modicum of this true modesty!
 
...           
            But philosophical ethics possesses many virtues that a religion-based ethics lacks: honesty, integrity, reasonableness, and (most importantly) humility. You see, while ethicists from different camps squabble over the importance of happiness or autonomy, religion callously asserts that making graven images is one of the ten most immoral things a person can do—all while neglecting to condemn slavery, or the rape of slaves, or genocide... the list goes on. 

You pay lip service to ethicists being humble enough to not claim true knowledge...then you imply that you know that slavery, rape of slaves, genocide, and a list of other items are indeed immoral.

Well...

It's not freaking rocket science.

All one has to do is start with some pretty simple precepts, that I think you would agree with.

I understand that we all live in the same physical universe, with (more or less) extremely similar bodies and brains, subject to the same physical laws.

I also understand, that, for my own well being, life is preferable to death, health is preferable to disease, comfort is preferable to pain, freedom is preferable to slavery, opportunities to flourish are preferable to those that do not allow flourishing. Pretty straightforward so far, right?

Since the vast majority of my fellow humans want well being for themselves and their loved ones, it is then very easy to extrapolate from the above, that it is best if I treat others the same way I want to be treated, in order to maximise their well being (or minimise the oposite). And it is also best for everyone else that wants these things, to live in societies that maximise well being, and minimises the oposite.

There a few other ways to think about it. All one has to do is ask oneself, "what would a society be like if everyone did the thing I am about to do? Would it be a better society, or worse?".

You know how you can tell why slavery, rape of slaves, genocide, etc are immoral? Ask the slaves, or those that are he target of genocide how they feel about it.

Or better yet, if you are unable to feel empathy, ask yourself, "how would I feel if I was a slave or a target of genocide?".

[Edwardo Piet]

And (I think that this is especially true concerning ethics) those who claim to have absolute knowledge are the ones who really don’t know shit.[/font][/size]

Are you claiming that absolutely?

Because I claim absolutely that sometimes absolute claims are warranted. But I also absolutely claim that usually they are not.

And certainly not in the case of bullshit gods.

"I don't know" is always a good answer about things we can't know, which is most things, but I certainly don't claim to know that all things are unknowable or that all things are unknown

I am epistemically humble because I like to answer things with "It depends" but I don't only say that as an expression of uncertainty, but also as a shortening of "It depends what you mean". If you mean something that can be absolutely known, and is absolutely known to those who know it, then I disagree, but if you mean something that cannot be absolutely known, and isn't known to anyone, then I agree. And, remember, that even relative things must absolutely be relative.

[vulcanlogician]

And it is also best for everyone else that wants these things, to live in societies that maximise well being, and minimises the oposite.

There a few other ways to think about it. All one has to do is ask oneself, "what would a society be like if everyone did the thing I am about to do? Would it be a better society, or worse?".

Are you the love child of John Stuart Mill and Kant?

Yeah, those all serve as a good basis for ethics. See ethicists come to their formulations through reason, noting the limitations of this methodology. That's what I mean't by humble.

---

And (I think that this is especially true concerning ethics) those who claim to have absolute knowledge are the ones who really don’t know shit.[/font][/size]

Are you claiming that absolutely?

See the bold text.

[Mystic]

You hate the idea of certainty in God and the path, so how will you ever achieve it?

[brewer]

You hate the idea of certainty in God and the path, so how will you ever achieve it?

Hate, no............ laugh, YES!

[Edwardo Piet]

And (I think that this is especially true concerning ethics) those who claim to have absolute knowledge are the ones who really don’t know shit.[/font][/size]

Are you claiming that absolutely?

See the bold text.

See the winky face after the question

---

Ni night everyone.

[The Grand Nudger]

You hate the idea of certainty in God and the path, so how will you ever achieve it?

...............................?

Do you ever stop and ask yourself "Who am I talking to, and what am I talking about"?

[vulcanlogician]

See the bold text.

See the winky face after the question

---

Ni night everyone.

Winky face seen  .

I must have picked up a persecution complex somewhere.