Enjoyment from watching others get hurt, and sociopathy

[GrandizerII]

Sociopathy isn't just simply about enjoying other people getting hurt. It's a pattern of various behaviors considered antisocial (as in going against the rules of society, not as in being against socializing). Every person, given the right circumstances, can display sociopathic/antisocial traits, or narcissistic traits, or histrionic traits, or borderline traits, or avoidant traits, and so on. But not every person consistently displays these traits in life, and especially not when it's societally inappropriate.

[Aroura]

Think about everyone who laughs at slapstick. I mean, we don't see blood, but we laugh at people slipping on a banana peel, or conking their head on a low hanging branch. Mild violence. Ever see someone fall IRL and laugh while at the same time feeling concerned and rushing over? Laughter is such a spontaneous thing, we sometimes do it at very inappropriate things.

People loved the gladiatorial games, and now they love horror movies, and worlds dumbest videos. PErsonally, I never enjoy seeing others hurt, even worlds dumbest makes me cringe and cover my eyes, not laugh. But it seems common enough, it is a pretty disturbing human trend.

[Cecelia]

Actually it's empathy that makes a lot of those movies popular. I mean if you really think about it... that's what most fiction is. Pain of some kind -- if not physical, then mental. Bruce Wayne's parents die, and everyone enjoys watching him go beat up criminals. That's both emotional and physical pain. Harry Potter's parents are killed before he's even old enough to go to school. Also physical and emotional pain, and yet the stories are easy to fall in love with. Because we empathize with the characters, rather than relish in their pain.

You can avoid all the physical violence, but the emotional pain isn't really any better. (And I honestly have no idea what you're watching if you avoid all physical violence. You're pretty much limited to children's television shows at that point.) I mean at least from the standpoint that people are sociopaths for enjoying watching/reading this sort of stuff.

For sports.. it's more about a test of skill than any real desire to see people get hurt. (Nascar is FAR worse, because people usually actually watch for the car wrecks -- of which people have actually died from.) In football people always cringe at the bad hits, and get excited about the big plays.

I doubt that 40% of porn contains violence against women. I've seen so many stats based on that. As high as 88% and as low as 2%, and it all depends on exactly what you define as violence. I'm sure some people do get off on it though, and they probably are sociopaths. (assuming it's actual violence, and not just BDSM play)

Now, we have become desensitized toward violence. Though I don't think movies, television, or any other media are the culprit. The culprit is society itself. How long they've protected those who abuse their spouses. Either by turning the other way while the husband beats his wife because she needs to know her place, or by shunning the man who speaks about his wife abusing him. How long society as a whole has said "You know what, Mass shootings are a fair cost to pay for the right to bare arms." War has long been considered an acceptable alternative to diplomacy. Even when we raise children -- we teach that it's okay to hit a child to discipline them -- just because we're bigger than they are. "A good spanking will teach them right from wrong!" That's the kind of attitude that desensitized us toward violence, because when you're okay with hitting a small child for breaking the rules--suddenly hitting an adult doesn't seem so bad. After all, if someone murders a kid you'd react stronger than if someone killed an adult. Society has desensitized us toward violence. But that's not why we enjoy those movies. We still enjoy them because at our core we can feel empathy toward other people--even when they aren't real. It's a capacity that humans have that shows our kindness, not that we are psychopaths.

[KevinM1]

I've found myself watching/enjoying far less contact sports than when I was a kid. I no longer watch the UFC (a combination of the physical toll on the fighters, plus the shadiness of nearly everyone involved is a huge turn off), I will likely stop watching the NFL after the Brady/Belichick dynasty is over. I still watch hockey, and it's gotten a lot cleaner, but there's still too many reckless boarding hits/blindside hits... I dunno how long I'll continue.

And, for me, it's not just that these kids (a lot of them are in their early-to-mid 20s) are getting traumatic injuries while trying to put on a show for fans, but that a lot of them are coddled from an early age because of their physical gifts, and then essentially tossed away once those gifts deteriorate. For the fighters/players who can escape lengthy careers with most of their minds and bodies intact, it's not a big deal, but too many can't. Seeing ex-athletes dying in their 40s, when they should be enjoying their lives with their families, is heartbreaking.

[The Valkyrie]

I'm not a fan of boxing, MMA, or any such sports.

Does that mean I'm not a sociopath??

Damn!

As an aside, did you no naturopaths only kill their victims with organic "medicines"?

[Edwardo Piet]

I don't think sadism is a sufficient condition for sociopathy.

I am not sure it's even a necessary condition.

There is a strong correlation though, of course.

And, wow, I thought it was around 1% of the population. I had no idea it's as much as 4%! That's 1 in 25 people

[GrandizerII]

I don't think sadism is a sufficient condition for sociopathy.

I am not sure it's even a necessary condition.

There is a strong correlation though, of course.

And, wow, I thought it was around 1% of the population. I had no idea it's as much as 4%! That's 1 in 25 people

I was thinking 3%, but yeah, statistically, there are bound to be a number of sociopaths here in this one forum. Starts looking around suspiciously.

[Edwardo Piet]

Thanks to a Netflix doc, I learned a few weeks ago that 40% of internet porn being viewed depicts violence against women. 40%! And people jerk off to that. And then I thought about the popularity of the Saw movies and how sadistic they are.

What to make of this? I mean, if so many people enjoy watching others in pain in one form or another, is sociopathy even a thing?? How in the world is it so normal to enjoy watching other people's pain if we supposedly have empathy?

Well . . . seen as this is not sexually explicit I guess I'm allowed to say this outside A-69: I like BDSM and I am both sexually sadistic and sexually masochistic.

Nothing that would actually cause any lasting harm to myself or others though, of course. Pain but not damage. This applies both to porn and actual sex. (Well, maybe not actual sex I'm getting, but at least actual sex I would desire). All of this is 100% consensual and legal, of course.

And despite all this I am definitely probably not a sociopath in any sense.

---

So on the other hand I'm kinda doing a 180. How violent are we talking in porn? I do like things a little rough but where does it cross into violent? Depending on where our line is depends on if I'm part of that 40%...

I mean, if we're including stuff like spanking on the backside to the point of leaving a faint pink mark then I'm pretty sure that includes a lot of women too.

---

So the question is, is it abnormal to enjoy watching other people get hurt?

It's normal.

And if it's normal, then what separates these normal people from sociopathic people?

Many things. We have a conscience and are against non-consensual violence, for one.

I mean, there's a difference between seeing the UFC come on the TV and grabbing the popcorn and seeing someone get attacked on the street and grabbing the popcorn.

---

Still we are the most violent of the there chimp species.  The Bonobos are the most saintly, I wonder if they're made even more closely in His image?

The Bonobos would make my mayo-making look tame. They often communicate via sex.

I don't think we're more violent than Chimps though, I think we're in-between Chimps and Bonobos. I'm sure Chimps would have even more wars than we do if they were capable of building a civilization and making advanced weapons.

---

My take on it is that people seem to be able to switch off their empathy for certain situations, whether it's in sports or if it's a criminal awaiting punishment. What differentiates the sociopaths from the normal people is that the sociopaths can't switch theirs back on.

Hmmm. I actually read that psychopaths can switch there's on and off which is why they are able to blend in and fake empathy so well. Because they can turn their empathy and compassion on, it's just not as intense as their desires and they can switch it off whenever they feel for it. They shallow compassion and empathy they feel is merely used to suit their own ends. It's just another tool in their manipulative toolbox.

A lot of scientists used to think that psychopaths only had cognitive empathy (the ability to think what it's like to be in someone else's position), and they completely lacked emotional empathy (the ability to feel what it's like to be in another person's position). But more recent evidence has put that in question and suggests that psychopaths can also feel what other people feel, they just don't care because their own selfish desires are stronger.

Psychopaths and sociopaths are different of course. For one, sociopaths are more low-functioning, and their anti-social behavior comes from past traumas and a poor upbringing (they stopped feeling empathy and compassion from a young age because not caring helped them cope better . . . so it's a defense mechanism) whereas psychopathy is genetic and psychopaths are born without a conscience. Psychopathy is neurological whereas sociopathy is psychological.

Sociopaths are often easier to spot and are worse at blending in too. Sociopaths also get caught more.

Perhaps . . . normal people can't switch off their empathy even when they choose to ignore it to get what they want (some people are bad people without being sociopaths or psychopaths), sociopaths can't switch on the empathy at all, or they lost their ability to, even when doing so would help them get what they want . . . and psychopaths can switch it on and off whenever they feel like it but they just use it as a tool to get what they want?

[mlmooney89]

So on the other hand I'm kinda doing a 180. How violent are we talking in porn? I do like things a little rough but where does it cross into violent? Depending on where our line is depends on if I'm part of that 40%...

I mean, if we're including stuff like spanking on the backside to the point of leaving a faint pink mark then I'm pretty sure that includes a lot of women too.

Lol mine goes a little further than light spanking. Let's just say that last night Tony and I were play wrestling and he had both my wrists in his one hand and was holding them tight enough it left a mark and I got suuuppppper turned on. :/ lol

[Edwardo Piet]

I mean, if we're including stuff like spanking on the backside to the point of leaving a faint pink mark then I'm pretty sure that includes a lot of women too.

Lol mine goes a little further than light spanking. Let's just say that last night Tony and I were play wrestling and he had both my wrists in his one hand and was holding them tight enough it left a mark and I got suuuppppper turned on. :/ lol

YAY!

Mine goes a lot further too