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Just because She's Topless
#41
RE: Just because She's Topless
Could you explain your position on grabbing people's genitals?
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#42
RE: Just because She's Topless
(January 3, 2018 at 1:24 pm)Shell B Wrote: RoadRunner, honest question. Do you think molesting someone is harmless?

One of the criticisms I have heard of some the the scandals in the news lately, is that it appears, that they are wanting to treat everything which can possibly be placed under a heading the same.   I kind of agree.  It seems that this question could cover such a broad range. 

In the video... I think it was relatively harmless.  However I do think that it is a violation, it is wrong, not to be supported, and justifiably punishable (as the girl had done).  In other situations, I do think that there can be much more harm (emotionally/ psychologically) even if there is no physical harm being done.   However, from a moral standpoint, I certainly wouldn't always equate this type of violation to someones feeling being hurt, or any psychological harm.  Which tells me, that while there may be an association, it doesn't correlate to one following from the other.

(January 3, 2018 at 1:31 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote:
(January 3, 2018 at 11:32 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Now I remember... thanks!
What objective harm was done in groping?  It seems like this would be at best subjective.... some may not mind as much, and it may even be relative to the person who is doing the groping. An external observer, cannot really tell what harm was done.   What makes groping the boob wrong (from a harm standpoint), but tapping her on the shoulder not harmful?  I don't think that the guy intended harm or was thinking about harming the girl.  And yet she intentionally caused him harm.

Maybe if some random guy decided to pull your bollocks (presuming you're not into that, mind) your view may change?

Come on man, really? Bracketing out the conversation about her having her fun bags out in public, you honestly can't see anything 'objectively wrong with just walking up to a girl and having a grab of her titties?

As I said, before I agree; that what the guy did was wrong.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
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#43
RE: Just because She's Topless
(January 3, 2018 at 2:23 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Doing quite well at avoiding them and trying to shift the burden on me as well.
What burden, lol?  I told you I'm not interested in bickering with you about whether or not sexual assault is objectively harmful.  I think that you're entirely full of shit.   There's no burden for you to meet that you haven't already met.

Quote:How does this apply to the video in question?   I still waiting for you to point out where the objective harm is, as well as what you mean by objective (as it doesn't appear to match the normal definitions).
-and you'll be waiting forever.  If you don't know by now that grabbin 'em by the pussy is harmful..I suspect that you never will.  It was your parents job to help you reach that conclusion, if you needed help. Not mine.

Quote:I wasn't making any such statement or really any statement at all.    I was asking a related question.  Do you think one can be violated or abused by what someone says?
JAQing off, again.

If you want to find a less flaccid example of some subtelety or vaguery needing to be accounted for in a case of when we might be morally justified (oir even morally given the mulligan) in harming some person, then do so. This example is not one of them, there is no vaguery or subtlety in this.

If you commit a sex crime, you should accept that you have consented to being jacked in the face. That's the price for playing the rape game, at the very least. There is no universe in which I'm going to consider the sex offender the victim when his victim decks him. I'm not going to humor you, in the slightest, about this. Nor will I cease reminding you, again and again..that if you were looking for some example to provide cogent criticism of moral realism, this example is a particularly dismal failure.

I have a moral realism master thread, by the by..perhaps some question regarding justifications for harm in harm based realist ethics would generate the conversation you want, rather than the embarrassing display we've been subject to thusfar? I can offer plenty (not all of which I would agree with), having given it alot of thought.....as a retired professional harm-er who likes to read boring morality shit and mull over my culpability at the bottom of a bottle, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#44
RE: Just because She's Topless
(January 3, 2018 at 11:05 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: But for any who hold this view, then would the girl be in the wrong, since the objective harm was done against the man?

Only if you consider sexual harassment/assault to be harmless.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
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#45
RE: Just because She's Topless
(January 3, 2018 at 3:18 pm)Khemikal Wrote:


Ok... if you don't want to or cannot answer. I thought of the question in regards to the video and figured I would ask.  I don't really understand why this big ordeal if that was the case though.
I do notice that you are still trying to push potions on me, that I have told you I do not hold and not based on anything I am saying.   One might suspect that this is not merely ignorance but something of a more morally questionable (as well as fallacious) nature.



Note to OP... Sorry, if I took over your thread. The video made me think of this question, and I forgot, that some people cannot answer a question simply, but we have to go through this song and dance.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
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#46
RE: Just because She's Topless
[Image: k6221.jpg]
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#47
RE: Just because She's Topless
Jesus! Sexual assault is a serious crime! How can you argue it doesn't cause harm given that. I don't know about music festivals but even if I was offended by bare titties( I wouldn't be), that wouldn't make me think it's ok to grab them.

Shit! If he doesn't like the sexual tension from seeing them, can't he just walk to another area of the festival?
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#48
RE: Just because She's Topless
Guys like that think nudity is an invitation and that it's funny to grope women. When I was a teen, an older man grabbed my ass at a concert. When I turned around, he was straight up laughing.
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#49
RE: Just because She's Topless
(January 3, 2018 at 12:00 pm)Mermaid Wrote: Why are breasts a sexual organ to he hidden? I think the question should start there.

I've seen breasts being compared to dick in this thread. So it's really a grey area. It's not sexual and shouldn't be hidden, like an arm maybe? So if a woman touched my arm and i decide to punch her is that ok? Would i get atheist forums praise and approval? So yes it is sexual and apparently she did the "right thing"

If a man gropes me i guess i'll resort to doing the right thing, a woman ever gropes my butt or anything sexual i will be sure to not do the right thing though. Not my style.
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#50
RE: Just because She's Topless
(January 3, 2018 at 5:51 pm)SaStrike Wrote:
(January 3, 2018 at 12:00 pm)Mermaid Wrote: Why are breasts a sexual organ to he hidden? I think the question should start there.

I've seen  breasts being compared to dick in this thread. So it's really a grey area. It's not sexual and shouldn't  be hidden, like an arm maybe? So if a woman touched my arm and i decide to punch her is that ok? Would i  get atheist forums praise and approval? So yes it is sexual and apparently she did the "right thing"

If a man gropes me i guess i'll resort to doing the right thing, a woman ever gropes my butt or anything sexual i will be sure to not do the right thing though. Not my style.

What?
If The Flintstones have taught us anything, it's that pelicans can be used to mix cement.

-Homer Simpson
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