Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist

[The Grand Nudger]

.. and giving her a good time as well.  Tragic on a small scale.

The Taming of the Shrew, featuring Harvey Weinstein as Petruchio. 

[Catholic_Lady]

If we go down this path, we’ll be needing consent forms. No, thanks.

Nah, this is the future, there's an app for that (at least, there will be in a few weeks): https://legalfling.io

Wow, seriously??

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I think the semantics over it being 'assault' is a distraction.  I think the issue is whether it's a problem and how to deal with it, which I don't think the divide is as big.  Where I see the difference is Shell B wanting women to chiefly be responsible, and others wanting the responsibility to be shared more?  So for all the back and forth, I don't think anyone is too far apart in the end.

I can’t speak for ShellBs, but it’s incredibly difficult for me to empathize with women, like this gal, who have such a hard time vocalizing themselves in these situations.  I just can’t fathom allowing my date to grope me; I can’t imagine not pushing him off or popping him in the nose.  But, that’s no one’s problem but mine I suppose.

Yeah I agree. I've been pressured. I've had guys test their boundaries. I've been put on guilt trips. (All before the age of 20 btw)

But I've always said no. And if I would have ever given in and done what they wanted at any point, I'm pretty sure it would never have crossed my mind to have accused them of assaulting me.

[SaStrike]

Pretty sure if you can give a bj "against your will" you can sign a form "against your will" or "under pressure". Consent forms will change nothing. Shit will still happen.

Guys a creep, rich and famous. Girls a gold digging attention whore. Bad recipe. Good opportunity for celeb scandal headline.

[Shell B]

I did read what you said.  It's that guys should stop if the woman says no.  And if it's uncomfortable, find out what's wrong.

I said more than that. On just what you paraphrased alone, I said more like, "find out specifically what is uncomfortable, whether it's everything or something specific."

That's not a ton of responsibility.  It's 'don't commit a sex crime against her'.  We're dumb animals, but I think we can shoulder a bit more of the burden.

Don't be ridiculous. That's not what I said.

You also said creepy guys kissing you is gross, but just a part of being a woman. 

Nope. Not what I said. It's part of being human. It applies to men too. Also, I at the very least implied that if there is any reason for him to think the kiss is unwanted, he shouldn't do it. Sometimes, going in for a kiss is how people, both men and women, initiate mating. Stop trying to make it sound like I'm trying to shrug off assault and normalize unwarranted sexual advances.

You're definitely coming from a different place when you have a 'just deal with it' attitude for a lot of this stuff that I think is a ways away from what many want to or are capable of just dealing with.

You've got to be shitting me. "Just deal with it?" You're not even defining "it." You're just blasting out one-liners that you think sum up my whole position on sexual interactions, misrepresenting me in grievous ways. Don't worry. You're not the first man (I assumed your gender) to tell me my opinions on womanhood are wrong on this forum while signalling that they're super feminist guardians of the vagina.

[Catholic_Lady]

Pretty sure if you can give a bj "against your will" you can sign a form "against your will" or "under pressure". Consent forms will change nothing. Shit will still happen.

I agree.

Maybe we should try getting to the root of the problem? Promote sexual morality and respect for self and others. Discourage hook up culture. Discourage porn use. Discourage men and women using each other in bed...

Promote the radical idea that sex is a language of self giving love and commitment.

Now there's a thought.

[henryp]

I think the semantics over it being 'assault' is a distraction.  I think the issue is whether it's a problem and how to deal with it, which I don't think the divide is as big.  Where I see the difference is Shell B wanting women to chiefly be responsible, and others wanting the responsibility to be shared more?  So for all the back and forth, I don't think anyone is too far apart in the end.

I can’t speak for ShellBs, but it’s incredibly difficult for me to empathize with women, like this gal, who have such a hard time vocalizing themselves in these situations.  I just can’t fathom allowing my date to grope me; I can’t imagine not pushing him off or popping him in the nose.  But, that’s no one’s problem but mine I suppose.

Isn't that crazy though?  That the norm is the guy tries things that might bother you so much you'd punch him in the face over it?  Doesn't it seem like there should be another step of some nature in there for both your benefits?   What if a guy is willing to take a punch over grabbing a tit.  What disincentives his behavior in that scenario?

[The Grand Nudger]

Or we could just address the issue itself and ignore christian religious fixations.  

[Catholic_Lady]

I can’t speak for ShellBs, but it’s incredibly difficult for me to empathize with women, like this gal, who have such a hard time vocalizing themselves in these situations.  I just can’t fathom allowing my date to grope me; I can’t imagine not pushing him off or popping him in the nose.  But, that’s no one’s problem but mine I suppose.

Isn't that crazy though?  That the norm is the guy tries things that might bother you so much you'd punch him in the face over it?  Doesn't it seem like there should be another step of some nature in there for both your benefits?   What if a guy is willing to take a punch over grabbing a tit.  What disincentives his behavior in that scenario?

Yes.

[Shell B]

Grabbing a tit isn't one of the things you do to initiate sex. There already are steps between meeting and grabbing a tit. It's up to men to use those steps. Grabbing a woman's tit is absolutely sexual assault, and it's prosecutable. Jail disincentives his behavior.

[The Grand Nudger]

Grabbing a tit isn't one of the things you do to initiate sex.

But "the claw"...apparently, is. 

(I know I'm not supposed to laugh, but it just keeps jumping out at me, it's gonna be the only thing I remember about the story in two days..watch)