(January 16, 2018 at 4:41 pm)J a c k Wrote: If we go down this path, we’ll be needing consent forms. No, thanks.

Nah, this is the future, there's an app for that (at least, there will be in a few weeks): https://legalfling.io

Combine that with a rapid DNA/STD pedigreeing service and they'll be bazillionaires.

(January 16, 2018 at 5:01 pm)Khemikal Wrote: A good summary, Shell..to which I would say that I'm sure he thought he was being puckish and sexy...a "whither thou goest" attempt to put one in the end zone.  I think he failed in his portion of that shared responsibility, even if she also failed, but I wouldn't call it a criminal failure.

Sex fail.

Yeah, duh.

Turns out, she actually is saying it was assault. I misspoke on that.

(January 16, 2018 at 4:40 pm)wallym Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 4:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I noticed this as well. Wonder why that is?

I think the semantics over it being 'assault' is a distraction.  I think the issue is whether it's a problem and how to deal with it, which I don't think the divide is as big.  Where I see the difference is Shell B wanting women to chiefly be responsible, and others wanting the responsibility to be shared more?  So for all the back and forth, I don't think anyone is too far apart in the end.

I can’t speak for ShellBs, but it’s incredibly difficult for me to empathize with women, like this gal, who have such a hard time vocalizing themselves in these situations.  I just can’t fathom allowing my date to grope me; I can’t imagine not pushing him off or popping him in the nose.  But, that’s no one’s problem but mine I suppose.

(January 16, 2018 at 5:10 pm)Shell B Wrote: Yeah, duh.

Turns out, she actually is saying it was assault. I misspoke on that.

Ah, well...I don't think she's gonna be able to make that one stick.  I don;t know if that amounts to much,  I don't think that she could make it stick even if it were, meaningfully, a sexual assault.

@Camus, from this end of the dynamic, it's pretty easy. I still think she made a mystifyingly stupid decision - and it;s just as hard for me to imagine me being so passive..but I know that women do that with regularity..specifically in this context. Another side effect of the sexually unavialable game theory of getting sex is that you hear no end of conquest (or cry on my shoulder) stories about girls who suck a dick they didn't really want to suck...and I've known plenty of girls that seemed nearly incapable of vocalizing their desire or the lack thereof.

"Call me when you find your tongue, I take requests" is my general response....which is probably why his seems so creepy, to me. If we're gonna feel bad for either of them..it's worth noting that Ansari thought he was having a great time.

I don’t think debating calling an action a sexual assault is playing semantics at all. That’s a serious accusation and it is because of situations like these and the throwing around of those words that it’s gradually losing its impact. Like many other words that used to actually mean something. Which is a shame, because that takes away from genuine victims using the word like it was intended.

(January 16, 2018 at 5:14 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 5:10 pm)Shell B Wrote: Yeah, duh.

Turns out, she actually is saying it was assault. I misspoke on that.

Ah, well...I don't think she's gonna be able to make that one stick.  I don;t know if that amounts to much,  I don't think that she could make it stick even if it were, meaningfully, a sexual assault.

She might be able to, if it actually was. The problem is that it's very important to go to the police immediately after an assault. Without video, audio or text, that's the only way you're going to get any evidence. It's not that "rape didn't happen if she didn't report it," but it's that the presumption of innocence is a very important part of our legal system, and you can't prove someone guilty without evidence. If, as I am now, I was assaulted, I wouldn't hesitate to report it, but I've never reported anything in the past, so it's not like I don't sympathize with people who don't.

Could have gone another way, amiright?  Rather than sucking his dick and texting him the next day she could have jacked him in the face and called the cops....but that's not usually how those things pan out, unfortunately.

(January 16, 2018 at 5:14 pm)Khemikal Wrote: @Camus, from this end of the dynamic, it's pretty easy.  I still think she made a mystifyingly stupid decision - and it;s just as hard for me to imagine me being so passive..but I know that women do that with regularity..specifically in this context.  Another side effect of the sexually unavialable game theory of getting sex is that you hear no end of conquest (or cry on my shoulder) stories about girls who suck a dick they didn't really want to suck...and I've known plenty of girls that seemed nearly incapable of vocalizing their desire or the lack thereof.  

"Call me when you find your tongue, I take requests" is my general response....which is probably why his seems so creepy, to me. If we're gonna feel bad for either of them..it's worth noting that Ansari thought he was having a great time.  

.. and giving her a good time as well.  Tragic on a small scale.

(January 16, 2018 at 4:52 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 4:48 pm)wallym Wrote: The male responsibility from what I gathered was to adhere to clear verbal cues.  I think that's a lower bar than some of us are proposing.   "Don't clearly raper her' is a responsibility for sure, but I think 'chiefly' up to the woman is a fair assessment.

So, you're take on this isn't even sole female responsibility, but it's also not what I said. Did you not read how I felt about consent? I think you did. Let me make it clear for people reading, since I'm being blatantly misrepresented, that women and men share the responsibility for consent and adhering to the lack thereof.

I did read what you said.  It's that guys should stop if the woman says no.  And if it's uncomfortable, find out what's wrong.  That's not a ton of responsibility.  It's 'don't commit a sex crime against her'.  We're dumb animals, but I think we can shoulder a bit more of the burden.

You also said creepy guys kissing you is gross, but just a part of being a woman.  

You're definitely coming from a different place when you have a 'just deal with it' attitude for a lot of this stuff that I think is a ways away from what many want to or are capable of just dealing with.