Dems Sell Out Dreamers, in exchange for.......?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Dems chose the wrong battle. While polls show that the majority of Americans agree that something should be done to protect the DACA dreamers, they don't agree that our government should be shut down because of them. They don't agree that dreamers should have priority over our military either. Dems are out of touch. Instead of running farther left candidates the Dems need to start putting moderates like Joe Manchin on the ballots. I don't believe the midterms are going to go as well as the Dems hope. They're too divided between the farther left Dems like the Bernie types, the moderates like the Joe Manchin types, and the establishment types like Hillary.

I agree. The optics of shutting down the government over albeit unwilling illegal aliens was not something that would sell in the hinterlands -- rightly or wrongly.

I don't agree that they're "out of touch", I just think that they're out of touch with an electoral-college majority on these sorts of issues, and realized that. They backed away from a decision that would have (and perhaps still will) hurt their chances this fall.

This was political calculus, and in that sense, Khem's thread title is apt; they sold 750,000 folks down the river a little. Whether they can recoup that this fall is up in the air.

[The Grand Nudger]

Hey, at least they got a few billion more in tax cuts and a provision allowing Trump to allocate funds wherever he wants without authorization...or even notification, of congress. A rider so damned onerous a republican tried to kill it, but lol, ofc it made it in.

[The Industrial Atheist]

LOL.  If you say so.  I can't believe you'd slander Brians good name by implication with me, though.  I believe in throwing molotov cocktails and bricks..and don't vote dem.....and worse, remember?

@Whatevs

I guess you might feel better about the dems winning, but the dems "winning" something looks a hell of alot like them losing.  It was a dem that bailed out the banks and droned an american on american soil (I;m ignoring all the not-americans because lol).  It was a dem that put up record deportation numbers.  It was dems that tanked single payer.  Hell, a dem won the pop vote......Need I continue?

I'm not saying the Dems are good they're not. They're just better by a small margin. I doubt you voted for Trump but just as a matter of perspective, The orange shitgibbon's first raid was one that Obama wouldn't touch. It was botched and they killed an 8 year old American girl.

BTW Do you vote Independent? If I'm being too nosy, sorry,

[A Theist]

Dems chose the wrong battle. While polls show that the majority of Americans agree that something should be done to protect the DACA dreamers, they don't agree that our government should be shut down because of them. They don't agree that dreamers should have priority over our military either. Dems are out of touch. Instead of running farther left candidates the Dems need to start putting moderates like Joe Manchin on the ballots. I don't believe the midterms are going to go as well as the Dems hope. They're too divided between the farther left Dems like the Bernie types, the moderates like the Joe Manchin types, and the establishment types like Hillary.

I agree. The optics of shutting down the government over albeit unwilling illegal aliens was not something that would sell in the hinterlands -- rightly or wrongly.

I don't agree that they're "out of touch", I just think that they're out of touch with an electoral-college majority on these sorts of issues, and realized that. They backed away from a decision that would have (and perhaps still will) hurt their chances this fall.

This was political calculus, and in that sense, Khem's thread title is apt; they sold 750,000 folks down the river a little. Whether they can recoup that this fall is up in the air.

I think the dems are going to have to come up with something other than resist Trump if they hope to win the mid terms. Their party is too fractured between what can be considered the left, the moderates, and the establishment dems with agendas and messages going in different directions.  The only thing that's barely holding them together is their dislike of Trump, and with the economy taking off like it is now the dems are going to have an uphill battle this Fall, from what I see.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think the dems are going to have to come up with something other than resist Trump if they hope to win the mid terms. Their party is too fractured between what can be considered the left, the moderates, and the establishment dems with agendas and messages going in different directions.  The only thing that's barely holding them together is their dislike of Trump, and with the economy taking off like it is now the dems are going to have an uphill battle this Fall, from what I see.

You're right that they need a unifying message, but what ought to give Republicans pause is that even without such a message, their star seems to be well on the rise. I'd argue that the Republicans are at least as fractured, and those fissures will become more apparent as the year goes on. Look at the number of ® Congress-members who aren't running for reelection ... this too is part of the Trump Effect.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm not saying the Dems are good they're not. They're just better by a small margin. I doubt you voted for Trump but just as a matter of perspective, The orange shitgibbon's first raid was one that Obama wouldn't touch. It was botched and they killed an 8 year old American girl.

BTW Do you vote Independent? If I'm being too nosy, sorry,

If there's no suitable candidate on either side, yeah....assuming I can be bothered to cast a meaningless vote at all, which I couldn't in our last presidiential. Some folks made a good case for tossing it third party just to secure better funding next go round, but by that point I was too far gone to give a fuck...and the third parties weren't exactly putting forward their best people either......

[A Theist]

I think the dems are going to have to come up with something other than resist Trump if they hope to win the mid terms. Their party is too fractured between what can be considered the left, the moderates, and the establishment dems with agendas and messages going in different directions.  The only thing that's barely holding them together is their dislike of Trump, and with the economy taking off like it is now the dems are going to have an uphill battle this Fall, from what I see.

You're right that they need a unifying message, but what ought to give Republicans pause is that even without such a message, their star seems to be well on the rise. I'd argue that the Republicans are at least as fractured, and those fissures will become more apparent as the year goes on. Look at the number of ® Congress-members who aren't running for reelection ... this too is part of the Trump Effect.

Oh yeah. I forgot about those Republicans who aren't running for reelection. I hope we can good candidates who will campaign on a good economic and jobs message rather than a drain the swamp platform. That can be just as defeating as all that resist Trump shit if that's all they have.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Oh yeah. I forgot about those Republicans who aren't running for reelection. I hope we can good candidates who will campaign on a good economic and jobs message rather than a drain the swamp platform. That can be just as defeating as all that resist Trump  shit if that's all they have.

Especially given how Trump has ignored draining the swamp, preferring instead to stock it with more 'gators.

I think the problem for the Republicans is that Trump is dragging them further right, meaning that their base will be narrowing.

[The Industrial Atheist]

I'm not saying the Dems are good they're not. They're just better by a small margin. I doubt you voted for Trump but just as a matter of perspective, The orange shitgibbon's first raid was one that Obama wouldn't touch. It was botched and they killed an 8 year old American girl.

BTW Do you vote Independent? If I'm being too nosy, sorry,

If there's no suitable candidate on either side, yeah....assuming I can be bothered to cast a meaningless vote at all, which I couldn't in our last presidiential.  Some folks made a good case for tossing it third party just to secure better funding next go round, but by that point I was too far gone to give a fuck...and the third parties weren't exactly putting forward their best people either......

I really wish Independent parties could become viable. The two party system is incredibly flawed. I think I voted for a Green once.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Thinking about it this morning, I was thinking that out of this shutdown, the Dems extracted funding for CHIP. In one sense, doesn't that encourage them to work for another shutdown in a couple of weeks?