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Jesus as Lord - why is this appealing to so many?
#31
RE: Jesus as Lord - why is this appealing to so many?
(January 30, 2018 at 10:12 pm)Aegon Wrote: ...you don't see how a dictatorship restricts individual autonomy? I'm not talking about God right now. Even Democratic republics restrict autonomy in many ways (ex: regulating what people are allowed to put in their own bodies)

I would agree, that all forms of government have rules,  even the local authority here at AF have restrictions that need to be abided by, and not everything goes (just ask Zen Classic). 
I also agree, that the discussion/complaint  is not specific to talking about God.   If one is arguing about all government, then I don't see a reason to single out dictatorships or Monarchy, which the only real difference required is the structure or ultimate authority.  

Are you proposing anarchy?   I think that even in that you will that someone is going to impose what they want onto others (there's just no centralized body responsible).  I don't think that anarchy is good.


Personally, I would rather have a good monarchy over a bad democracy.   I think that a good government is always to be preferred to a bad one.  It seems kind of silly to make a case for the bad government over the good.  The main benefit in a democracy is when you have a bad government, not a good one.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
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#32
RE: Jesus as Lord - why is this appealing to so many?
It's incredibly difficult to take anyone arguing for a dictatorship seriously.  Particularly in that it is only due to your -not- living in a dictatorship that you find yourself enabled to make such comments in the first place.  That is the reality of a dictatorship, regardless of whatever commitments your other fantasies lead you to make about them.

Godamn your god, godamn your holy spirit, and godamn your jesus. Now...tell me, what would your "benevolent dictator", or any dictator... make of that?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#33
RE: Jesus as Lord - why is this appealing to so many?
(January 30, 2018 at 10:41 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(January 30, 2018 at 10:12 pm)Aegon Wrote: ...you don't see how a dictatorship restricts individual autonomy? I'm not talking about God right now. Even Democratic republics restrict autonomy in many ways (ex: regulating what people are allowed to put in their own bodies)

I would agree, that all forms of government have rules,  even the local authority here at AF have restrictions that need to be abided by, and not everything goes (just ask Zen Classic). 
I also agree, that the discussion/complaint  is not specific to talking about God.   If one is arguing about all government, then I don't see a reason to single out dictatorships or Monarchy, which the only real difference required is the structure or ultimate authority.  

Are you proposing anarchy?   I think that even in that you will that someone is going to impose what they want onto others (there's just no centralized body responsible).  I don't think that anarchy is good.


Personally, I would rather have a good monarchy over a bad democracy.   I think that a good government is always to be preferred to a bad one.  It seems kind of silly to make a case for the bad government over the good.  The main benefit in a democracy is when you have a bad government, not a good one.

I'm not arguing all government is bad. Definitely not. I figured I wouldn't have to explain the level of control a dictatorship or monarchy has over the individual in comparison to a democracy. My point is the liberal democratic republic I live in restricts too heavily in my opinion, but the point was dumb because clearly you must understand how an individuals rights fare under a dictatorship or monarchy... 'm taken aback by how casually you accept the idea of those systems. And obviously you can't just throw around things like "good government" and "bad government" without a definition. Any system that so tightly controls or restricts the populous is bad IMO.

"The only real difference is the structure or ultimate suthority." What? That's like.... the biggest difference possible.
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#34
RE: Jesus as Lord - why is this appealing to so many?
RR is confusing dictatorship with group agreed upon rules . And there is no such things as a good dictator .

Submission is never a virtue. cooperation among equals and peers is .

Relationships are not submission they a unification of equal parties for the benefit of both .   

Rules only have validity because people agree to follow them
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.

Inuit Proverb

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#35
RE: Jesus as Lord - why is this appealing to so many?
(January 30, 2018 at 3:14 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: One of the (many) things I don't understand about Christianity is the notion of wanting Jesus to be your lord.  To want to genuflect before him and be ruled over by him.  As an American, the idea of a central, non-democratically elected leader is completely anathema to my beliefs, and it confuses me that so many self-proclaimed patriots here seem so willing to be lorded over in a divine sense.  IMO, a beneficial dictator is still a dictator.

So, Christians of AF, why do you want to be lorded over by Jesus?  Why is this something you desire?

Partly something to do with lack of (or struggles with) emotional independence. In other words, they haven't grown up emotionally.
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#36
RE: Jesus as Lord - why is this appealing to so many?
I expect this is why christianity has such an issue with male homosexuality. Most people have bisexual tendencies to some extent, so if you repress them and give people a single outlet for those desires then you can more easily control. So Jesus becomes a substitute dominant male lover.
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#37
RE: Jesus as Lord - why is this appealing to so many?
(January 30, 2018 at 3:14 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: One of the (many) things I don't understand about Christianity is the notion of wanting Jesus to be your lord.  To want to genuflect before him and be ruled over by him.  As an American, the idea of a central, non-democratically elected leader is completely anathema to my beliefs, and it confuses me that so many self-proclaimed patriots here seem so willing to be lorded over in a divine sense.  IMO, a beneficial dictator is still a dictator.

So, Christians of AF, why do you want to be lorded over by Jesus?  Why is this something you desire?

I work for a wise and benevolent dictator, and it's the best job I've ever had. I'll never leave.
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#38
RE: Jesus as Lord - why is this appealing to so many?
(January 31, 2018 at 12:35 pm)alpha male Wrote:
(January 30, 2018 at 3:14 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: One of the (many) things I don't understand about Christianity is the notion of wanting Jesus to be your lord.  To want to genuflect before him and be ruled over by him.  As an American, the idea of a central, non-democratically elected leader is completely anathema to my beliefs, and it confuses me that so many self-proclaimed patriots here seem so willing to be lorded over in a divine sense.  IMO, a beneficial dictator is still a dictator.

So, Christians of AF, why do you want to be lorded over by Jesus?  Why is this something you desire?

I work for a wise and benevolent dictator, and it's the best job I've ever had. I'll never leave.

LMAO Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
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#39
RE: Jesus as Lord - why is this appealing to so many?
(January 31, 2018 at 12:35 pm)alpha male Wrote: I work for a wise and benevolent dictator, and it's the best job I've ever had. I'll never leave.

Yep, I'm sure Stalin's goonies said the same thing.

Oh how the mighty have fallen. A religion that once swept through Rome and conquered it using nothing but love and pacifism has now ascribed its devotees to shit detail, cleaning up after the mighty Emperor Trump. (I'm glad you like your job, though.)
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#40
RE: Jesus as Lord - why is this appealing to so many?
(January 31, 2018 at 12:37 pm)Grandizer Wrote:
(January 31, 2018 at 12:35 pm)alpha male Wrote: I work for a wise and benevolent dictator, and it's the best job I've ever had. I'll never leave.

LMAO Big Grin  Big Grin  Big Grin

You find that funny because...?

Basically people are just saying that dictatorship is necessarily an undesirable state of affairs without giving reasons.
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