Losing respect for Rand Paul

[vulcanlogician]

I'll take a libertarian over a Missouri good ol' boy classic conservative any day. And vs Trumptards, there is no contest. Forget about Rand. People forget his dad was often more vocal against the Republicans than the Democrats (at least on certain issues).

Rather than having our classic Democrats and Republicans (who really both serve Wall Street), I think our congress would be better divided Libertarians vs Socialists. If these latter two parties could meet each other half way, we'd have a better functioning congress.

The problem is that both Rand and his dad are as conservative (I mean, Republican) as fuck. They only stand out from the other Republicans on foreign policy matters, AFAIK. And I'm pretty sure there are ways to be Libertarian without having to think and behave no differently from a Republican. Tiberius himself adheres to a sexy form of libertarianism.

Foreign policy matters, drugs, gay marriage, and (except many can't because they have to run on a Republican ticket) abortion.

Since we live in a democracy, and many members of society are conservative, wouldn't it be better if they voted in libertarians rather than good ol' boys? You are right that they take laissez  faire capitalism too far, which is why I also recommend that the Democrats be replaced with socialists. You may like welfare capitalism of the dems, but I don't. I'd rather have socialism, even if it is kept in check by a libertarian opposition. Just a "dreamer" idea really, with some room for practicalities...

[Brian37]

I never had any value for him. If you default to siding with the GOP but call yourself a "libertarian" or "independent", then all that really means is you are willing to fuck over LGBT and pot smokers too as far as letting the rich treat them like poker chips too. Economics matter for everyone, so it is not enough to say, "I don't hate LGBT and yes, pot should be legal." Economic stability matters to ALL in every state and in every city. And what we have now is a system that has been hijacked by the top, to the point of putting the 99% at their mercy.

[Aegon]

I don't like any Republican, ESPECIALLY not Rand. His policies are either ridiculous or disgusting, to me at least. The only one I actually respect is Trey Gowdy for his commitment to transparency and the rule of law, but he's retiring this year.

The list of congressmen I like or respect overall is pretty thin, regardless of party.

[shadow]

Rand Paul, the nobody?

I'll take a libertarian over a Missouri good ol' boy classic conservative any day. And vs Trumptards, there is no contest. Forget about Rand. People forget his dad was often more vocal against the Republicans than the Democrats (at least on certain issues).

Rather than having our classic Democrats and Republicans (who really both serve Wall Street), I think our congress would be better divided Libertarians vs Socialists. If these latter two parties could meet each other half way, we'd have a better functioning congress.

I'd love that. I think both socialism and libertarianism can produce functional governments. While I personally prefer libertarianism, socialist governments can work quite well from my experience. Right now I'm living in Denmark, and here they are very socialist (even moreso than Canada, where I'm from), but it works for them, so I don't think it's a valueless ideology. I just prefer more independence, individual accountability  and the free market myself, because I think it's more efficient.

[Edwardo Piet]

Tiberius himself adheres to a sexy form of libertarianism.

He can correct me if I'm wrong but whilst still being partially Libertarianism I think he's more centrist than he used to be. I think years back he was a full on hardcore Libertarian but he's mellowed somewhat.

He can step in and correct me if I'm wrong about this.

[shadow]

I don't like any Republican, ESPECIALLY not Rand. His policies are either ridiculous or disgusting, to me at least. The only one I actually respect is Trey Gowdy for his commitment to transparency and the rule of law, but he's retiring this year.

The list of congressmen I like or respect overall is pretty thin, regardless of party.

I thought Rand Paul was really salient in the 2016 Republican presidential debates, so I've liked him for a while. But if he's not going to stand by an actual libertarian ideology, and he's going to softly support Trump, I don't see him as any better than the other cronies in that party.

[Aegon]

American politics is ridiculously skewed. Here, I'm far left or "a socialist." If I lived elsewhere I'd be moderate leaning conservative. I believe in the free market and its efficiency, but I believe the government must offer several entitlements to its citizenry before we go deregulating everything. A universal healrg care system is vital IMO. I think a two tier system would suit the US though rather than single payer

[The Grand Nudger]

Neither of the Pauls are libertarians.  They're both christian dominionists, ones a statist an the other is a bog standard establishment republican.

[vulcanlogician]

Thanks, Captain Buzzkill. At the very least they're libertarian-ish. (ie. they deviate from establishment sometimes).

[Brian37]

I'll take a libertarian over a Missouri good ol' boy classic conservative any day. And vs Trumptards, there is no contest. Forget about Rand. People forget his dad was often more vocal against the Republicans than the Democrats (at least on certain issues).

Rather than having our classic Democrats and Republicans (who really both serve Wall Street), I think our congress would be better divided Libertarians vs Socialists. If these latter two parties could meet each other half way, we'd have a better functioning congress.

I'd love that. I think both socialism and libertarianism can produce functional governments. While I personally prefer libertarianism, socialist governments can work quite well from my experience. Right now I'm living in Denmark, and here they are very socialist (even moreso than Canada, where I'm from), but it works for them, so I don't think it's a valueless ideology. I just prefer more independence, individual accountability  and the free market myself, because I think it's more efficient.

Um no, it isn't "socialism" or "libertarian", but checks on power. Over long periods economies change, and power can become lopsided to any label, so it is a matter of constant checks on power and adjustments to keep any type of monopoly from arising. I think that  concept even gets lost on even some of my fellow liberals.

I can only speak right now of what is not working. We are borrowing as a government in the form of tax breaks for the top, and that debt adds up, and eventually the rest of us have to pay for it. Huge example is how 45 talks of trains and roads and bridges, and wants 1.8 trillion to fix it. GREAT sounds great, but if the tax on the rich gets cut and exceeds the taxes the rest of us pay, who will need up paying for that long term debt?

Now if we were doing things right like we used to between 48 to 1980, we see that while there were still dips, we avoided major bubbles in that time. Maybe in the future a tax break for the top would work or might be needed, but for the next couple decades, to continue exploding the debt and pay gap, is insane.

Social safety nets such as a basic living wage if one wants to appeal to a business, if that owner says, my costs cannot exceed a certain labor/material/profit ratio, then why would the cost of paying for a roof and food and medical and education and to be able to save in addition, why would that be any different? It still amounts to bringing in a ratio above being in the red to make it possible to make gains. Currently however, the GOP and even Libertarians are offering the bullshit to workers, "Just work longer for less and trust greedy people."

Social safety is not the communism of Stalin's Russia or Castro's Cuba. "Taxes are robbery" are the other bullshit extreme. The truth of long term stability to me, is a mixed economy that PROVIDES and considers the needs of the workers, whom, are the real job creators because any business owner will tell you, they wont hire one more person than needed unless demand forces them to. That demand isn't coming from the top 1% but the rest of the middle and bottom classes.


I am for the private sector, just not "too big to fail". I am for the private sector, just not monopolies. I am for wealth, just not greed. I just see right now, corporations being abusive.