Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?

[Jehanne]

The overwhelming consensus of modern scholarship:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Epistle_of_Peter

I'm underwhelmed.... I don't have a problem if Peter was not the author, and 2 Peter was not as quickly accepted as the other texts by the early church (although it isn't said as to why).  However, as I previously discussed, I am generally not very impressed with the examples of linguistic differences and the sharp conclusions that are drawn from them at times (especially if you take into consideration an amanuenses) The best thing mentioned here is the allusion to Gnosticism but even that some already consider a gnostic presence into the end of the 1st century.

Why not accept The Gospel of Peter as being authentic, then? It was claimed, explicitly, to have been written by the Apostle Peter.

[Amarok]

Of course roads going to be underwhelmed . Because the evidence does not matter he's 'Skeptical"and "just asking questions"

[Minimalist]

Which begs the question (if this statistic is correct) why do they believe what they do.

That rather depends on the "scholar" doesn't it?  Many are xtians themselves which sort of colors their thinking.  Others work for institutions which insist that they conform to the religious beliefs of the institution or get fired.

Religion is not a "democracy" either.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

What does Jesus need with a whip ?

Can't He just turn miscreants into newts or something ?


Or how about a more Biblical turn of phrase, couldn't Jesus have commanded the earth to vomit out the money changers ??

THAT would have got their attention !!!

Like the tale of Jesus' arrest in a garden, the story is not believable.  For instance, cutting off someone's ear off with an ancient sword would, in and of itself, be a miracle.  Swords in that time were not sharp, and the angle of attack would be impossible for anyone to make.

But, such makes for a good story, for believers at least!

Aren't you overlooking the symbolism of one of the disciples cutting off the high priest's servants ear to the story in Genesis 3:24 (NLT) = "After sending them out, the Lord God stationed mighty cherubim to the east of the Garden of Eden. And he placed a flaming sword that flashed back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life."

Yeshua is depicted as the tree of life and when the disciple cut off the servant's ear he was acting like the cherubim who was guarding the tree of life in the Garden of Eden after Adam & Eve had been expelled. And you will notice that the Yeshua incident also takes place in the garden of Gethsemane.  So the later story is a repeat of the first story.  

When the disciple cut off the servant's ear he symbolically prevented the servant from hearing the message from the tree of life.  But Yeshua had mercy on the one who would do him harm (also repeated in numerous passages) and gave him an opportunity to hear the message of eternal life.  

The thing to remember when reading the biblical stories is that even if they seem illogical and ridiculous they are all based on the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 34:12-28 and that they are all related to other stories in the Bible.

[Jehanne]

Your post is excellent analysis that the gospel authors were not concerned with historical accuracy but simply were telling stories to advance their theology about Jesus.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Your post is excellent analysis that the gospel authors were not concerned with historical accuracy but simply were telling stories to advance their theology about Jesus.

There's no celestial deity of any kind but the Bible is a beautifully written story with layers and layers of inter-twined complex themes.  It's the 24k gold standard of fairy tales.  The committee that wrote it did an amazing job without computers to keep track of the various threads.

[Godscreated]

 Now you're just trying to save face by dodging the conversation with another that wasn't being discussed, shame. You know the conversation was about Jesus arrest at the garden because it is the only time we know He was arrested. No the Romans did not arrest Jesus at the cleansing of the Temple, and your inference isn't logical only to save face. There was only one time Jesus cleanses the Temple, though it like many other stories was written about in three different gospels Matthew, Mark and Luke. I'm surprised you didn't ask if I believe in one, two or three different times He cleansed the temple. Now you have two things to answer the arrest and the number of times He cleansed the Temple.
GC

And, so, you believe that Jesus went to Jerusalem, got a whip, went into the Temple, overturned tables, and chased people around, and the Roman and Jewish authorities did nothing???

 Many times the Jewish religious authority wanted to do something with Jesus and did not because they feared what might happen. The Romans gave little thought to this event, they tried to stay away from religious events to prevent further trouble with the Jewish people. By the way I do not remember any account saying He chased anyone around, I believe you are adding to the story for dramatic purposes, it's no wonder you and the other atheist think the Bible was corrupted by inconsistent retelling because it's all you know how to do to try and prove a point. Get things straight.

GC

---

Like the tale of Jesus' arrest in a garden, the story is not believable.  For instance, cutting off someone's ear off with an ancient sword would, in and of itself, be a miracle.  Swords in that time were not sharp, and the angle of attack would be impossible for anyone to make.

But, such makes for a good story, for believers at least!

Aren't you overlooking the symbolism of one of the disciples cutting off the high priest's servants ear to the story in Genesis 3:24 (NLT) = "After sending them out, the Lord God stationed mighty cherubim to the east of the Garden of Eden. And he placed a flaming sword that flashed back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life."

Yeshua is depicted as the tree of life and when the disciple cut off the servant's ear he was acting like the cherubim who was guarding the tree of life in the Garden of Eden after Adam & Eve had been expelled. And you will notice that the Yeshua incident also takes place in the garden of Gethsemane.  So the later story is a repeat of the first story.  

When the disciple cut off the servant's ear he symbolically prevented the servant from hearing the message from the tree of life.  But Yeshua had mercy on the one who would do him harm (also repeated in numerous passages) and gave him an opportunity to hear the message of eternal life.  

The thing to remember when reading the biblical stories is that even if they seem illogical and ridiculous they are all based on the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 34:12-28 and that they are all related to other stories in the Bible.

 You are correct in a way you do not see or understand the Bible is like a fine woven tapestry, it's all related. However your thought on Peter cutting off the ear of the servant and the angel guarding the Tree of Life just doesn't mesh. You are also using a paraphrased Bible that is made for easier reading and not necessarily totally accurate. I have the NLT and enjoy reading it but study more accurate translations.

GC

[Jehanne]

GC,

You have a terrible view of Roman history.

Roman and local rulers were in bed together; the relationship was sometimes a troubled one, but if a local ruler was not following Rome's dictates, that person was replaced, quickly. Ditto for any Roman govenor.

The idea that Jesus could go into the Temple with a whip, overturn tables (while, presumably, chasing people away from their belongings), etc., without a response from the local or Roman (federal) authorities is just an absurdity; you might as well believe that the South won the Civil War.

[Amarok]

The Romans in many regards were tolerant however oppose Roman laws or stop paying Cesar what's his . And you'll end up like Carthage.

[Jehanne]

GC might want to read a little more (other than his Bible), such as the Roman practice of mass crucifixions:

https://clas-pages.uncc.edu/james-tabor/...ucifixion/