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Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 4, 2018 at 9:57 pm
(This post was last modified: February 4, 2018 at 11:06 pm by Jehanne.)
Paul claims to have persecuted the early Church, but, to me, his claim seems rather dubious. After all, Paul was not a Roman official or a member of the legions, and given Roman federalism, it seems unthinkable to me that Paul, a mere Roman citizen, could harass Roman subjects? It seems that not only the Roman authorities, but the local ones under Roman governorship, would object, strongly, to such behavior. Some will cite 2 Corinthians 11:24 where he states, "Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one.", but this claim is also odd, given Paul's Roman citizenship.
It seems to me that the story of Paul's persecution of the early Church was invented, and was (and is) pure myth.
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 4, 2018 at 10:27 pm
If jesus can be invented the whole pile of shit can be invented.
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 4, 2018 at 10:29 pm
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Paul was a historical figure.
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 4, 2018 at 10:41 pm
(This post was last modified: February 4, 2018 at 10:42 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
If Paul were a historical figure than the narrative about paul, and from paul, is massively unreliable. If paul were not a historical figure then the narrative about paul and from paul..is..obviously..massively unreliable.
Perhaps try reading it like this-"I used to be an atheist like you guys....................and then", and you'll understand everything about that particular bit that there is to understand.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 4, 2018 at 10:44 pm
(This post was last modified: February 4, 2018 at 10:46 pm by Minimalist.)
Which Paul? The one in the epistles or the one in Acts?
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/dail...ical-paul/
Quote:1) Authentic or Early Paul: 1 Thessalonians, Galatians, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Romans, Philippians, and Philemon (50s-60s A.D.)
2) Disputed Paul or Deutero-Pauline: 2 Thessalonians, Ephesians, Colossians (80-100 A.D.)
3) Pseudo–Paul or the Pastorals: 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus (80-100 A.D.)
4) Tendentious or Legendary Paul: Acts of the Apostles (90-130 A.D.)
All the dates here should be taken cum grano salis.
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 4, 2018 at 11:07 pm
I am referring to #1.
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 4, 2018 at 11:26 pm
(This post was last modified: February 4, 2018 at 11:33 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Then you'd be referring to two line items.
Quote:13 For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14 I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
and
Quote:4 even though I, too, have reason for confidence in the flesh.
If anyone else has reason to be confident in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, a member of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.
The rest of his persecutor cred is found in legendary paul. Are you wondering whether the paul of early paul is a convincing pharisee? The short answer is no. He was padding his resume, and displays none of the competence he claims. Here;s an interesting question, though. What "church" could he have been persecuting? The christers claim he converted around 33ad.......
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 4, 2018 at 11:29 pm
We have exactly zero copies of any of those documents from that period.
We know that at least half of the alleged "pauline" epistles are forgeries. We know that most of the other documents in the NT are pseudoepigraphical crap also. Given that history I'm not betting that there was any actual fact behind any of it.
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 4, 2018 at 11:38 pm
(This post was last modified: February 4, 2018 at 11:44 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
If he were a rapper, he;d have written both of those lines as
"You heard of my shit, you heard of the kid, you know what I did." Which, I guess..sounds great..especially to a sick beat, but wasn't any more true then than it is now. Assuming for the sake of discussion there was a paul, the mans clearly a boastful liar. Nobody had the slightest idea who he was, making all of those "letters" to various churches sound like the crank shit your uncle sends to a local newspaper. Errybody errywhere was fuckin up, and "paul", of all people, had to go and set everybody right...whoever the hell those people were supposed to be...
It's kind of silly, imo.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 5, 2018 at 7:42 am
(February 4, 2018 at 11:38 pm)Khemikal Wrote: If he were a rapper, he;d have written both of those lines as
"You heard of my shit, you heard of the kid, you know what I did." Which, I guess..sounds great..especially to a sick beat, but wasn't any more true then than it is now. Assuming for the sake of discussion there was a paul, the mans clearly a boastful liar. Nobody had the slightest idea who he was, making all of those "letters" to various churches sound like the crank shit your uncle sends to a local newspaper. Errybody errywhere was fuckin up, and "paul", of all people, had to go and set everybody right...whoever the hell those people were supposed to be...
It's kind of silly, imo.
Saul of Tarsus.
Commadant
1st Brigade
Green Ink Regiment.
I know the type.
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