West Virginia Teachers on Strike, still make sure hungry students are fed

[RoadRunner79]

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I have to wonder where you read that, RR? 

http://www.12news.com/article/news/local.../395529368

Arizona ranks dead last in teacher pay

Arizona teachers make an average salary of just over $40,000.

Of course that is an average and does not consider the starting salary.  But they do give some comparisons.

Here's some perspective: Food service managers ($55,010); retail supervisors ($40,870); mail clerks ($42,510); post office clerks ($53,010); and utility meter readers ($44,760) in Arizona have higher average salaries than teachers, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. And these jobs do not require college degrees.

Oh, and that summer you get off?

https://www.payscale.com/career-news/201...ummers-off

1. Teachers aren’t compensated for the summer months.

Even the teachers who don’t work in the summer aren’t really on vacation the way some think they are. Teachers are paid, and contracted, for the months that school is open. It’s part of the reason that teachers make less than other professionals. In other words, teachers aren’t enjoying a paid vacation in the summer; instead, they have a job that runs nine months a year.

And for the privilege you get to go get a master's degree which will drive them even further into debt.

We treat teachers like shit and then the WLB expects them to carry guns, too?  Fuck him.

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I don't have an issue with teachers getting paid more (I think teachers are important). I think that salaries should be such, that you can get good people into these positions. Time off, is also a benefit which does deserve consideration.

My issue is that you are trying to compare annual salaries, and then are telling me, that the teacher is not contracted for a full year. Here an hourly rate would be more appropriate or a proportioned salary comparison.

I am curious though... can teachers file for unemployment like construction workers do?

[Cecelia]

While I don't know about the specific conditions of this strike; and I'm not commenting on the merit thereof.

I do remember, reading in the Chicago Tribune about how school teachers was one of the highest paying bachelors degree's per hour. 
While I would assume,  that the calculation did not include work taken home, but only hours on campus; it is an interesting figure.  I know I would love to have school teachers hours, although I am sure, that my boss would also want to adjust my pay.  Heck, I would love to be able to take a month off just one summer, and go for a nice motorcycle ride.

You wouldn't last as a teacher for very long if you think the hours are attractive.  They're really not.   Yeah, we're only in school from 7:00 - 3:00.  (Well usually a little after 3, because we need to have office hours in order to do our jobs well).  Then we get home, and the real work begins.  Planning, grading, and contacting parents.  I work anywhere between 50 and 60 hours a week (depending on how much grading I have to do, and depending on what happens in class.  Of which I have 7 classes to teach, with over 100 students).   Planning is crucial for being a good teacher.  You can't get by without planning.  "Winging it" only works in the movies. 

We do get sick days, but taking a sick day means your class falls behind the schedule you need to meet.  And of course you have to leave plans for a substitute, but substitutes (and I have nothing but respect for them) aren't you.  Which means that students are bound to fall behind, and act up--because hey, this sub is only here temporarily.  Let's see what we can get away with!  And the substitute might not know the subject that well.  I honestly don't take sick days unless I think I have something contagious.  Because it's easier to tough through it, than to try to make up the next time.

Yeah, we get summers off.  During which time we use for professional development, as well as recuperating from a long and stressful school year.  Of course many teachers have to take a second job during the summer so they don't go broke.  I know that my first couple of years teaching I did.  Took a crappy retail job because it was all I could get.  The only reason I don't take one now is because my husband finally got a better paying job.  When he lost his last job--through no fault of his own--I was definitely worried I'd have to take a second job just to get by.  I don't think people realize just how much teaching can take out of you.  And we can't take a vacation any time we want.  My cousin's getting married in the Bahamas?  Oh wait, it's during the school year.  I'll have to decline, because I can't miss any time and have my students fall behind.

Of course none of this is to mention the athletics and other extracurricular activities we do.  Personally I coach cheerleading, as well as run a Yoga Club.  Both of which take up more of my time, but which I do because I know there are students interested, and they need someone to run those.  I'm not even counting this time among the 50-60 hours I work each week.

From the outside it sounds easy, but it's nowhere near as easy as it sounds.  I love my job, and wouldn't want to do anything else.  But the hours aren't attractive at all.  Those who join teaching because they think they'll have it easy tend to wash out quick.

[RoadRunner79]

While I don't know about the specific conditions of this strike; and I'm not commenting on the merit thereof.

I do remember, reading in the Chicago Tribune about how school teachers was one of the highest paying bachelors degree's per hour. 
While I would assume,  that the calculation did not include work taken home, but only hours on campus; it is an interesting figure.  I know I would love to have school teachers hours, although I am sure, that my boss would also want to adjust my pay.  Heck, I would love to be able to take a month off just one summer, and go for a nice motorcycle ride.

You wouldn't last as a teacher for very long if you think the hours are attractive.  They're really not.   Yeah, we're only in school from 7:00 - 3:00.  (Well usually a little after 3, because we need to have office hours in order to do our jobs well).  Then we get home, and the real work begins.  Planning, grading, and contacting parents.  I work anywhere between 50 and 60 hours a week (depending on how much grading I have to do, and depending on what happens in class.  Of which I have 7 classes to teach, with over 100 students).   Planning is crucial for being a good teacher.  You can't get by without planning.  "Winging it" only works in the movies. 

We do get sick days, but taking a sick day means your class falls behind the schedule you need to meet.  And of course you have to leave plans for a substitute, but substitutes (and I have nothing but respect for them) aren't you.  Which means that students are bound to fall behind, and act up--because hey, this sub is only here temporarily.  Let's see what we can get away with!  And the substitute might not know the subject that well.  I honestly don't take sick days unless I think I have something contagious.  Because it's easier to tough through it, than to try to make up the next time.

Yeah, we get summers off.  During which time we use for professional development, as well as recuperating from a long and stressful school year.  Of course many teachers have to take a second job during the summer so they don't go broke.  I know that my first couple of years teaching I did.  Took a crappy retail job because it was all I could get.  The only reason I don't take one now is because my husband finally got a better paying job.  When he lost his last job--through no fault of his own--I was definitely worried I'd have to take a second job just to get by.  I don't think people realize just how much teaching can take out of you.  And we can't take a vacation any time we want.  My cousin's getting married in the Bahamas?  Oh wait, it's during the school year.  I'll have to decline, because I can't miss any time and have my students fall behind.

Of course none of this is to mention the athletics and other extracurricular activities we do.  Personally I coach cheerleading, as well as run a Yoga Club.  Both of which take up more of my time, but which I do because I know there are students interested, and they need someone to run those.  I'm not even counting this time among the 50-60 hours I work each week.

From the outside it sounds easy, but it's nowhere near as easy as it sounds.  I love my job, and wouldn't want to do anything else.  But the hours aren't attractive at all.  Those who join teaching because they think they'll have it easy tend to wash out quick.

I have been averaging about 2700 hours for the last three years. Average for the US is ~1740 I believe. I get called out on weekends and nights. I’m salary, so I don’t clock in, but I started keeping track of my hours after a couple of 22 hour days about 3 years ago. The schedule you described would be a welcome break! You may want to be careful with your assumptions! Also, I think that people often overestimate their time, if not specifically keeping track. I know I tended to remember the 65-70 hour weeks a lot more than the 50 hour ones, before I started keeping track.

It’s not that I don’t think teachers work hard, but I don’t think your description is typical either. It could differ by area, and certainly would be different by subject. I know that most of my teachers had one or two free periods in high school (one may have been a study hall). Although I could certainly see an English teacher grading papers taking more time; perhaps an extra 4 hours a night.... this wasn’t constant.

Again.... I’m not bashing teachers. Just saying, that comparisons which don’t account for hours are not correct.

By the way..what do you teach?

---

You may also note, that the teachers around here, make quite a bit better in a lot of places, than what was cited for Arizona.

[Fireball]

While I don't know about the specific conditions of this strike; and I'm not commenting on the merit thereof.

I do remember, reading in the Chicago Tribune about how school teachers was one of the highest paying bachelors degree's per hour. 
While I would assume,  that the calculation did not include work taken home, but only hours on campus; it is an interesting figure.  I know I would love to have school teachers hours, although I am sure, that my boss would also want to adjust my pay.  Heck, I would love to be able to take a month off just one summer, and go for a nice motorcycle ride.

You wouldn't last as a teacher for very long if you think the hours are attractive.  They're really not.   Yeah, we're only in school from 7:00 - 3:00.  (Well usually a little after 3, because we need to have office hours in order to do our jobs well).  Then we get home, and the real work begins.  Planning, grading, and contacting parents.  I work anywhere between 50 and 60 hours a week (depending on how much grading I have to do, and depending on what happens in class.  Of which I have 7 classes to teach, with over 100 students).   Planning is crucial for being a good teacher.  You can't get by without planning.  "Winging it" only works in the movies. 

We do get sick days, but taking a sick day means your class falls behind the schedule you need to meet.  And of course you have to leave plans for a substitute, but substitutes (and I have nothing but respect for them) aren't you.  Which means that students are bound to fall behind, and act up--because hey, this sub is only here temporarily.  Let's see what we can get away with!  And the substitute might not know the subject that well.  I honestly don't take sick days unless I think I have something contagious.  Because it's easier to tough through it, than to try to make up the next time.

Yeah, we get summers off.  During which time we use for professional development, as well as recuperating from a long and stressful school year.  Of course many teachers have to take a second job during the summer so they don't go broke.  I know that my first couple of years teaching I did.  Took a crappy retail job because it was all I could get.  The only reason I don't take one now is because my husband finally got a better paying job.  When he lost his last job--through no fault of his own--I was definitely worried I'd have to take a second job just to get by.  I don't think people realize just how much teaching can take out of you.  And we can't take a vacation any time we want.  My cousin's getting married in the Bahamas?  Oh wait, it's during the school year.  I'll have to decline, because I can't miss any time and have my students fall behind.

Of course none of this is to mention the athletics and other extracurricular activities we do.  Personally I coach cheerleading, as well as run a Yoga Club.  Both of which take up more of my time, but which I do because I know there are students interested, and they need someone to run those.  I'm not even counting this time among the 50-60 hours I work each week.

From the outside it sounds easy, but it's nowhere near as easy as it sounds.  I love my job, and wouldn't want to do anything else.  But the hours aren't attractive at all.  Those who join teaching because they think they'll have it easy tend to wash out quick.

Hear, hear! One thing I learned in the early '90s when I was unemployed and taught as a substitute on call (which meant I had better be paying attention to the phone in the morning if the school district called me) was to get together with the math and physics teachers so that the continuity of their classes would be there if they had to take time off for being sick. Between my time as a Petty Officer in the Navy, and my training as a BSA leader, I had the crowd control stuff pretty well down. If the kids tried to derail the class into hearing "war stories" from this sub, I said that they could talk to me at lunch time. No takers. ...and I can "wing it" in either a math or physics class. I've had enough of both that I can run circles around a high school student. I actually liked teaching Advanced Placement classes, because the students were motivated...whether by parental threat or of their own accord, because they just eat up what is offered, and ask a ton of questions. I got a great sense of satisfaction when the students asked a question that made sense- it meant they were getting it.

[Aegon]

You wouldn't last as a teacher for very long if you think the hours are attractive.  They're really not.   Yeah, we're only in school from 7:00 - 3:00.  (Well usually a little after 3, because we need to have office hours in order to do our jobs well).  Then we get home, and the real work begins.  Planning, grading, and contacting parents.  I work anywhere between 50 and 60 hours a week (depending on how much grading I have to do, and depending on what happens in class.  Of which I have 7 classes to teach, with over 100 students).   Planning is crucial for being a good teacher.  You can't get by without planning.  "Winging it" only works in the movies. 

We do get sick days, but taking a sick day means your class falls behind the schedule you need to meet.  And of course you have to leave plans for a substitute, but substitutes (and I have nothing but respect for them) aren't you.  Which means that students are bound to fall behind, and act up--because hey, this sub is only here temporarily.  Let's see what we can get away with!  And the substitute might not know the subject that well.  I honestly don't take sick days unless I think I have something contagious.  Because it's easier to tough through it, than to try to make up the next time.

Yeah, we get summers off.  During which time we use for professional development, as well as recuperating from a long and stressful school year.  Of course many teachers have to take a second job during the summer so they don't go broke.  I know that my first couple of years teaching I did.  Took a crappy retail job because it was all I could get.  The only reason I don't take one now is because my husband finally got a better paying job.  When he lost his last job--through no fault of his own--I was definitely worried I'd have to take a second job just to get by.  I don't think people realize just how much teaching can take out of you.  And we can't take a vacation any time we want.  My cousin's getting married in the Bahamas?  Oh wait, it's during the school year.  I'll have to decline, because I can't miss any time and have my students fall behind.

Of course none of this is to mention the athletics and other extracurricular activities we do.  Personally I coach cheerleading, as well as run a Yoga Club.  Both of which take up more of my time, but which I do because I know there are students interested, and they need someone to run those.  I'm not even counting this time among the 50-60 hours I work each week.

From the outside it sounds easy, but it's nowhere near as easy as it sounds.  I love my job, and wouldn't want to do anything else.  But the hours aren't attractive at all.  Those who join teaching because they think they'll have it easy tend to wash out quick.

I have been averaging about 2700 hours for the last three years. Average for the US is ~1740 I believe. I get called out on weekends and nights. I’m salary, so I don’t clock in, but I started keeping track of my hours after a couple of 22 hour days about 3 years ago. The schedule you described would be a welcome break! You may want to be careful with your assumptions! Also, I think that people often overestimate their time, if not specifically keeping track. I know I tended to remember the 65-70 hour weeks a lot more than the 50 hour ones, before I started keeping track.

It’s not that I don’t think teachers work hard, but I don’t think your description is typical either. It could differ by area, and certainly would be different by subject. I know that most of my teachers had one or two free periods in high school (one may have been a study hall). Although I could certainly see an English teacher grading papers taking more time; perhaps an extra 4 hours a night.... this wasn’t constant.

Again.... I’m not bashing teachers. Just saying, that comparisons which don’t account for hours are not correct.

By the way..what do you teach?

---

You may also note, that the teachers around here, make quite a bit better in a lot of places, than what was cited for Arizona.

Ohhhh ohhhhh can I play "My Life is Harder Than Yours"? I wanna play the kidney failure card more often.

[RoadRunner79]

I have been averaging about 2700 hours for the last three years.  Average for the US is ~1740 I believe. I get called out on weekends and nights.  I’m salary, so I don’t clock in, but I started keeping track of my hours after a couple of 22 hour days about 3 years ago.  The schedule you described would be a welcome break!  You may want to be careful with your assumptions!   Also, I think that people often overestimate their time, if not specifically keeping track.  I know I tended to remember the 65-70 hour weeks a lot more than the 50 hour ones, before I started keeping track.  

It’s not that I don’t think teachers work hard, but I don’t think your description is typical either. It could differ by area, and certainly would be different by subject. I know that most of my teachers had one or two free periods in high school (one may have been a study hall). Although I could certainly see an English teacher grading papers taking more time; perhaps an extra 4 hours a night....  this wasn’t constant.

Again.... I’m not bashing teachers.  Just saying, that comparisons which don’t account for hours are not correct.

By the way..what do you teach?

---

You may also note, that the teachers around here, make quite a bit better in a lot of places, than what was cited for Arizona.

Ohhhh ohhhhh can I play "My Life is Harder Than Yours"? I wanna play the kidney failure card more often.

Not what I was going for... I grant that many people have a harder life than I.  I actually have a blessed life (although I'm not without my problems).    I work hard, and sometimes I wonder if all the money is worth it.  I could still be very comfortable and work a lot less, have less stress (would probably be healthier).  But there are rewards for what I do as well.

[The Valkyrie]

I have been averaging about 2700 hours for the last three years. Average for the US is ~1740 I believe. I get called out on weekends and nights. I’m salary, so I don’t clock in, but I started keeping track of my hours after a couple of 22 hour days about 3 years ago. The schedule you described would be a welcome break! You may want to be careful with your assumptions! Also, I think that people often overestimate their time, if not specifically keeping track. I know I tended to remember the 65-70 hour weeks a lot more than the 50 hour ones, before I started keeping track.

It’s not that I don’t think teachers work hard, but I don’t think your description is typical either. It could differ by area, and certainly would be different by subject. I know that most of my teachers had one or two free periods in high school (one may have been a study hall). Although I could certainly see an English teacher grading papers taking more time; perhaps an extra 4 hours a night.... this wasn’t constant.

Again.... I’m not bashing teachers. Just saying, that comparisons which don’t account for hours are not correct.

By the way..what do you teach?

---

You may also note, that the teachers around here, make quite a bit better in a lot of places, than what was cited for Arizona.

Ohhhh ohhhhh can I play "My Life is Harder Than Yours"? I wanna play the kidney failure card more often.

Kidney failure?

Pffft!

One night my heart exploded. I couldn't afford a phone, so I couldn't call an ambulance.

So I left the box I lived in, carrying the remnants ofmy heart in my bare hards, and walked 20 miles, uphill, in a blizzard, to my nearest hospital.

They didn't have a spare heart so I now have, in my chest, a hamster in a wheel.

And it wasn't a young hamster to begin with!

[Cecelia]

Here you are saying not to make assumptions, and then in the very next breath making assumptions about how much work your teachers did growing up.  First of all, free periods aren't free.  We use those periods for planning (I only get one every other day btw) and for catching up on grading.  Of course those periods only help a little when we've got 7 classes to plan and grade for.

I can tell you that most days I come home from work, and spend roughly 2 hours each night working on grading/planning.  Usually it's a little more.  (Grading by hand takes quite a bit of time, especially since I have more than 100 students.  Then I have to put the grades in the gradebook, as well as into the computer) Then I spend a couple of hours on the weekend finishing up any leftover grading that I didn't have time for in the week.  How much depends on how busy the week is.  Early in the quarter it's not too bad usually.  Later in the quarter it can be a nightmare, and I can spend all weekend grading 3-5 page papers written by a large number of students. 

I'm not complaining, fwiw. I know that other people have tougher jobs. But people often underestimate just how much work we teachers do. There's a lot more to teaching than just going by the textbook.

Hear, hear! One thing I learned in the early '90s when I was unemployed and taught as a substitute on call (which meant I had better be paying attention to the phone in the morning if the school district called me) was to get together with the math and physics teachers so that the continuity of their classes would be there if they had to take time off for being sick. Between my time as a Petty Officer in the Navy, and my training as a BSA leader, I had the crowd control stuff pretty well down. If the kids tried to derail the class into hearing "war stories" from this sub, I said that they could talk to me at lunch time. No takers. ...and I can "wing it" in either a math or physics class. I've had enough of both that I can run circles around a high school student. I actually liked teaching Advanced Placement classes, because the students were motivated...whether by parental threat or of their own accord, because they just eat up what is offered, and ask a ton of questions. I got a great sense of satisfaction when the students asked a question that made sense- it meant they were getting it.

I've definitely had a mix of subs.  When I went on maternity leave both times the sub did a wonderful job.  I don't take too many regular sick days myself, but on the few occasions I've had to for a funeral (like when my mother-in-law died) I've had mixed results.  Some are great, and have no trouble with students.  Others are good substitutes, but have some trouble keeping the students from eating them alive.    Once in a while I'll get a 'movie sub' who just puts on a movie.  (Which is fine, as long as the movie is tangentially related to the material.)  Usually I'll leave my lesson plan, unless I'm just totally out of it.  Their job is hard enough as it is.

Also you'd have had some takers at my school lol.

[Fireball]

Here you are saying not to make assumptions, and then in the very next breath making assumptions about how much work your teachers did growing up.  First of all, free periods aren't free.  We use those periods for planning (I only get one every other day btw) and for catching up on grading.  Of course those periods only help a little when we've got 7 classes to plan and grade for.  

I can tell you that most days I come home from work, and spend roughly 2 hours each night working on grading/planning.  Usually it's a little more.  (Grading by hand takes quite a bit of time, especially since I have more than 100 students.  Then I have to put the grades in the gradebook, as well as into the computer) Then I spend a couple of hours on the weekend finishing up any leftover grading that I didn't have time for in the week.  How much depends on how busy the week is.  Early in the quarter it's not too bad usually.  Later in the quarter it can be a nightmare, and I can spend all weekend grading 3-5 page papers written by a large number of students. 

I'm not complaining, fwiw.  I know that other people have tougher jobs.  But people often underestimate just how much work we teachers do.  There's a lot more to teaching than just going by the textbook.  






I've definitely had a mix of subs.  When I went on maternity leave both times the sub did a wonderful job.  I don't take too many regular sick days myself, but on the few occasions I've had to for a funeral (like when my mother-in-law died) I've had mixed results.  Some are great, and have no trouble with students.  Others are good substitutes, but have some trouble keeping the students from eating them alive.    Once in a while I'll get a 'movie sub' who just puts on a movie.  (Which is fine, as long as the movie is tangentially related to the material.)  Usually I'll leave my lesson plan, unless I'm just totally out of it.  Their job is hard enough as it is.

Grading tests and homework. Don't get me started!  Trying to read test and homework answers in a student's crabbed "handwriting" nearly made me go blind. I don't think that anyone realizes how difficult that kind of thing can be until they experience it. I know that I didn't. I realized when I was 14 in drafting class that I could make my handwriting much more legible than the chicken scratching that I had used up until then. It's called "shop hand", and is all caps. Just look at a drawing made in that era, and you will know what I mean. People who study graphology claim that it is a sign of a big ego to write like that, but I have to point out that clarity of communication supersedes that to them.

[Cecelia]

Grading tests and homework. Don't get me started!  Trying to read test and homework answers in a student's crabbed "handwriting" nearly made me go blind. I don't think that anyone realizes how difficult that kind of thing can be until they experience it. I know that I didn't. I realized when I was 14 in drafting class that I could make my handwriting much more legible than the chicken scratching that I had used up until then. It's called "shop hand", and is all caps. Just look at a drawing made in that era, and you will know what I mean. People who study graphology claim that it is a sign of a big ego to write like that, but I have to point out that clarity of communication supersedes that to them.

I remember in 3rd or 4th grade growing up my teachers were like "Learning Cursive is the MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU WILL EVER DO.  You'll be using it all the time in high school."

Got to high school, my teachers were like "Please print.  No, really just print. Preferably legibly."  (I still did some of my work in cursive out of habit)

As a teacher, I finally got why.  Some kids have beautiful handwriting.  Others are clearly future doctors.  Thankfully these days computers are so widespread that any 3-5+ page paper will be TYPED.  By like demand.  (A friend of mine though, English teacher, REQUIRES her seniors to do one hand written paper per year.  She's a sadist I tell you).  Even WITH print, some kids write answers and I look at it and it's like the Zodiac Cipher.   Need an NSA cryptologist to figure out what they're saying.