An infinite, beginningless and eternal Universe is taken seriously by scientists.

[LadyForCamus]

But! But! Math doesn’t count!

[Jehanne]

According to my spell checker, you have not studied Quantum Mechanics.

QM, like the other theories such as ST, assume that there aren't any greater causes to the existence and function of matter.

As far as the topic is concerned, while it cannot be determined when the (theoretical) BB occurred, because it supposedly started the parameter of time, then it may be just as logical to say that the universe is eternal, that it existed all the time, in which case it never had a beginning, and has no end.

But that's just playing with a single concept of time, it is ignoring all the other factors that require a source of power, purpose and intelligence etc.

Modern science does not have to appeal to invisible angels pushing planets to explain why they move around the Sun.  Ditto for the Universe's origin.

[Banned]

QM, like the other theories such as ST, assume that there aren't any greater causes to the existence and function of matter.

As far as the topic is concerned, while it cannot be determined when the (theoretical) BB occurred, because it supposedly started the parameter of time, then it may be just as logical to say that the universe is eternal, that it existed all the time, in which case it never had a beginning, and has no end.

But that's just playing with a single concept of time, it is ignoring all the other factors that require a source of power, purpose and intelligence etc.

Modern science does not have to appeal to invisible angels pushing planets to explain why they move around the Sun.  Ditto for the Universe's origin.

If I mentioned any thing like that, it may seem like you are having a legitimate discussion by quoting me.

[Jehanne]

Modern science does not have to appeal to invisible angels pushing planets to explain why they move around the Sun.  Ditto for the Universe's origin.

If I mentioned any thing like that, it may seem like you are having a legitimate discussion by quoting me.

I see no reason to believe that an intelligence brought the Universe into being and/or one that sustains it any more than I see a reason to believe that planets move because there are "entities" pushing them.

[Whateverist]

If I mentioned any thing like that, it may seem like you are having a legitimate discussion by quoting me.

I see no reason to believe that an intelligence brought the Universe into being and/or one that sustains it any more than I see a reason to believe that planets move because there are "entities" pushing them.

Besides, if some intelligence actually put the world we experience, then a proper understanding of the actual world would require an explanation of the origins and natural history of such a being.  Where'd it come from, why did it create the world we experience when it did rather than earlier or later?  What constraints, if any, limit the range of possible worlds this being can create?  

To just say "oh, it is beyond us but everything was created by the almighty" is no explanation at all.  It is simply giving "we know not what" a name.

[Banned]

I see no reason to believe that an intelligence brought the Universe into being and/or one that sustains it any more than I see a reason to believe that planets move because there are "entities" pushing them.

Whatever you think or don't think is fine, but don't quote me and comment as if I wrote such a bizarre thing. I am happy to stay on topic, but if you want to go into religion, the thread might be better moved there.

[The Grand Nudger]

You did say that there were other factors which required a source of power, purpose, and intelligence...didn't you?

[Banned]

You did say that there were other factors which required a source of power, purpose, and intelligence...didn't you?
[/quote

But entities pushing planets?

Intelligence may be attributed to an accidentally accumulated convenience.
Purpose may be explained as our perspective, and power as energy from the BB.

You are right though, I should apologize.

---

I see no reason to believe that an intelligence brought the Universe into being and/or one that sustains it any more than I see a reason to believe that planets move because there are "entities" pushing them.

I'm sorry, I did suggest God in my statement, and I won't bring it into the discussion.

[Jehanne]

You are right though, I should apologize.

---

I see no reason to believe that an intelligence brought the Universe into being and/or one that sustains it any more than I see a reason to believe that planets move because there are "entities" pushing them.

I'm sorry, I did suggest God in my statement, and I won't bring it into the discussion.

Point of my thread is that it was in response to Steve's really long thread, that basically has at its premise that actual infinities in the physical world are a logical absurdity, but yet, mainstream science takes such ideas seriously.  I have lots of other references (such as The Physical Universe by Professor Frank Shu, a UC Berkeley astronomer and member of the US National Academy of Sciences -- published on January 1, 1982 and still in print!) that I could post here.

Point is -- A beginning-less and endless (eternal) Universe that is infinite in spatial extent is an idea that is taken seriously by mainstream Science.

[Banned]

Point of my thread is that it was in response to Steve's really long thread, that basically has at its premise that actual infinities in the physical world are a logical absurdity, but yet, mainstream science takes such ideas seriously.  I have lots of other references (such as The Physical Universe by Professor Frank Shu, a UC Berkeley astronomer and member of the US National Academy of Sciences -- published on January 1, 1982 and still in print!) that I could post here.

Point is -- A beginning-less and endless (eternal) Universe that is infinite in spatial extent is an idea that is taken seriously by mainstream Science.

Well I think that physical infinities are not only logical and do quite well in math, but that they are physical realities. And I am not talking about God either.

Physical forces which have infinite properties and or behavior are subjects which come up in ancient science, and are partly preserved in myths and other anecdotes of the past.
While it isn't common knowledge today, and generally hasn't been for a long while,
what science is considering ought to be taken seriously, because it will take into account the forces such as dark matter and other speculations which appear appropriate.