Something from Nothing

[The Grand Nudger]

Are space and time products of something physical...?

As we know and define it, absolutely and demonstrably, yes.  Amusingly, spacetime is "more physical" than the concept of space itself.  The concept of space, of spatial relationships and reference points and tensors, could be applied to a philosophic vacuum of nothingness.  As in, if we had a cube of p-vacuum exactly 3m by 3m, there would be a point in the middle of that space, despite the space being filled with a conceptual nothing.

Spacetime, however, is both made out of and chock full of shit.

[robvalue]

Did we find out what God made our (mostly lethal) play area out of yet? I've generally heard it was from nothing. I've never heard an atheist claim anything came from nothing. But also there's no way to know that it can't, either.

[rskovride]

---

Since I am neither an astrophysicist nor a religious zealot looking to prove everybody else wrong, I don't see a compelling reason to figure any of that drivel out. I sincerely do not care how the universe came to be. Interesting to read about on my lunch break, but the different theories do nothing to altar my beliefs.

Something, nothing, yada yada ..... I'm something, you're something, we live in and around something; that's all that really matters to me.

---

This sounds like something Alan Watts would say. Something and nothing are distinct but of the same essence.... or something like that. 

Taking the eastern approach?

---

His statement regarding the relativity of something to nothing is just dualism, innit? Watts said a drove of similar stuff but he got a lot of it from Carl Jung. And Taoism. Obviously.

Yes, I think you are right in the case of the OP, dualism.  Maybe I was just hoping someone would argue Zen or Taoism. (I didn't pay any attention to OP's religious views till later in the thread.)

[Aegon]

---

Since I am neither an astrophysicist nor a religious zealot looking to prove everybody else wrong, I don't see a compelling reason to figure any of that drivel out. I sincerely do not care how the universe came to be. Interesting to read about on my lunch break, but the different theories do nothing to altar my beliefs.

Something, nothing, yada yada ..... I'm something, you're something, we live in and around something; that's all that really matters to me.

---

---

His statement regarding the relativity of something to nothing is just dualism, innit? Watts said a drove of similar stuff but he got a lot of it from Carl Jung. And Taoism. Obviously.

Yes, I think you are right in the case of the OP, dualism.  Maybe I was just hoping someone would argue Zen or Taoism. (I didn't pay any attention to OP's religious views till later in the thread.)

I could if you really wanted me to. You have to say please though.

[rskovride]

Yes, I think you are right in the case of the OP, dualism.  Maybe I was just hoping someone would argue Zen or Taoism. (I didn't pay any attention to OP's religious views till later in the thread.)

I could if you really wanted me to. You have to say please though.

I would certainly like to witness a zen argument and responses.

[The Grand Nudger]

In buddhist cosmology, there was the notion that the realm of formlessness, infinite in time and space, surrounded all other realms.  Within it descending towards our realm, lay the realm of form, then the realm of desire.  There are four basic divisions of cyclical time that proceed through the stages.  The universe comes to be, the universe exists in state, the universe dissolves, all is nothingness.

Getting anything more specific out of it, however, could be a chore.

---

Hey, is a zen argument the kind where both people stand there staring at each other, saying nothing, btw? 

[Succubus]

...Existence can be defined, by space and tiime, and the absence of those is nothing, or non existence,
unless_______________
there are other forces where time and space are irrelevant - and those kind of forces have been considered by science...

Do these scientists have names? Links please.

Let's just say that the space time values we experience, are limited by the speed of light...

They are.

... or whatever paramenters people can think of...

Do you have any idea how stupid this is, or are you struggling with the meaning of the word 'parameter'?

Can you image space time parameters so extreme - that our continuim is just a dot, or practically nothing?

No. And if I could, why would I?

For example,

Imagine stepping into a dark wall, which puts you into every place in the universe at once, but doesn't allow you to experience it because there's no time.

Stargate Universe is a television series and is for entertainment purposes only.

Or imagine stepping into a shaft of light, and you are shrunk down to nothing, but you exist forever, past, present and future, but you can't know it because you don't occupy any space.

It's easier to imagine you're talking shite.

These are the kind of things that have been considered.

See above.

[rskovride]

Hey, is a zen argument the kind where both people stand there staring at each other, saying nothing, btw? 

Something like that. 

[downbeatplumb]

---

This seems relevant.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/wat...spartanntp

Hawking made it interesting...
No space, no time, - nothing?

Except for a tiny dot? Or did that happen after nothing?

---

What Hawking was saying that the term "before" has no meaning in the context of the universe as he describes it.
It did not come from anything because there was no anywhere for it to come from and no time for it to come from.

Seems strange to me, but he is the world renowned physicist and I'm not.

[Amarok]

Hawking argues that there was no before the big bang that the universe did not come for anything because there was no before the universe .