I still think getting a flu shot is directly linked to getting the flu

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It's now been four months since I was Dx'd with flu. Still having problems, not surprising with my history.

[Rev. Rye]

I have received the flu vaccine every year for the last 27. I have not been infected in all those years. I also am in direct contact yearly with infected people.

Otter! By what mechanism does a flu vaccine infect a person?

An attenuated form of the most common strains of the virus; I agree in most cases it works like a vaccine should. However, with some people (like me and Lutrinae have had to deal with multiple times), it backfires; it could possibly be because of irregularities in our immune systems (at least at the moment), and it can also be because it's improperly manufactured and the viruses are either attenuated or killed improperly.

Once may be a fluke, but when it happens multiple times, or, in our cases, every fucking time it happens, well, there's a reason some people are skeptical in this case. Hey, maybe if you keep running into a brick wall, at some time it might not actually hurt.

[Catholic_Lady]

I've never had the fly shot. My husband is required to get it every year though. He got sick only one time after.

[chimp3]

I have received the flu vaccine every year for the last 27. I have not been infected in all those years. I also am in direct contact yearly with infected people.

Otter! By what mechanism does a flu vaccine infect a person?

An attenuated form of the most common strains of the virus; I agree in most cases it works like a vaccine should. However, with some people (like me and Lutrinae have had to deal with multiple times), it backfires; it could possibly be because of irregularities in our immune systems (at least at the moment), and it can also be because it's improperly manufactured and the viruses are either attenuated or killed improperly.

Once may be a fluke, but when it happens multiple times, or, in our cases, every fucking time it happens, well, there's a reason some people are skeptical in this case. Hey, maybe if you keep running into a brick wall, at some time it might not actually hurt.

The attenuated form is rarely used these days. You would be wise to receive an inactivated form. They are readily available.

[Mystic]

I got the Flu shot this year.

[Rev. Rye]

An attenuated form of the most common strains of the virus; I agree in most cases it works like a vaccine should. However, with some people (like me and Lutrinae have had to deal with multiple times), it backfires; it could possibly be because of irregularities in our immune systems (at least at the moment), and it can also be because it's improperly manufactured and the viruses are either attenuated or killed improperly.

Once may be a fluke, but when it happens multiple times, or, in our cases, every fucking time it happens, well, there's a reason some people are skeptical in this case. Hey, maybe if you keep running into a brick wall, at some time it might not actually hurt.

The attenuated form is rarely used these days. You would be wise to receive an inactivated form. They are readily available.

And even the inactivated form is liable to fuck up and fail to kill the viruses. Yes, I've done both forms, and still got it.

And here's an article explaining why they don't work, and its explanation seems to match mine.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/w...often-fail

[chimp3]

The attenuated form is rarely used these days. You would be wise to receive an inactivated form. They are readily available.

And even the inactivated form is liable to fuck up and fail to kill the viruses. Yes, I've done both forms, and still got it.

And here's an article explaining why they don't work, and its explanation seems to match mine.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/why-flu-vaccine

This article supports what I wrote earlier, that the vaccine sometimes imparts ineffective immunity. Not the OPs assertion that the vaccine causes infection or is "directly linked to " infection. By the way, the vaccine does not kill viruses.

[Rev. Rye]

And even the inactivated form is liable to fuck up and fail to kill the viruses. Yes, I've done both forms, and still got it.

And here's an article explaining why they don't work, and its explanation seems to match mine.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/why-flu-vaccine

This article supports what I wrote earlier, that the vaccine sometimes imparts ineffective immunity. Not the OPs assertion that the vaccine causes infection or is "directly linked to " infection. By the way, the vaccine does not kill viruses.

I guess we must be thinking of different types of inactivated vaccines; still, even then, sometimes the detergent fails to disrupt the virus in a split virus vaccine or a subunit vaccine may fail to remove the components of a virus that allow it to survive or reproduce. Maybe "directly linked" may not have been the best phrasing, implying the sort of strong causal link that's been demonstrated between smoking and cancer; then again, when the propter hoc is followed by the post hoc this goddam consistently for some people, there's a reason some people think that.

The point is, it's nowhere near as effective as some like to think, and the evidence does support this claim.

[chimp3]

This article supports what I wrote earlier, that the vaccine sometimes imparts ineffective immunity. Not the OPs assertion that the vaccine causes infection or is "directly linked to " infection. By the way, the vaccine does not kill viruses.

I guess we must be thinking of different types of inactivated vaccines; still, even then, sometimes the detergent fails to disrupt the virus in a split virus vaccine or a subunit vaccine may fail to remove the components of a virus that allow it to survive or reproduce. Maybe "directly linked" may not have been the best phrasing, implying the sort of strong causal link that's been demonstrated between smoking and cancer; then again, when the propter hoc is followed by the post hoc this goddam consistently for some people, there's a reason some people think that.

The point is, it's nowhere near as effective as some like to think, and the evidence does support this claim.

There is evidence that immunizations are sometimes ineffective. Sometimes very effective. Smallpox and polio for instance. The problem with influenza is the rapid rate of mutation, not the vaccine itself.

[Rev. Rye]

I don't deny that most of the vaccines we have to take are effective and largely risk-free. I don't even deny that for many, the flu vaccines actually do help. That said, due to numerous factors, including the rapid rates of mutation that require a new vaccine every year, occasional defects in manufacture, and immune irregularities in some people, it isn't all that effective. With the wildly variable effectiveness rates demonstrated in the article, even if the whole population took it, herd immunity might not actually take hold. Admittedly, the effects of getting it and it backfiring aren't really worse than not getting it at all, but to me it's a case of the benefits of doing so not really outweighing the benefits of not doing so.