Posts: 30129
Threads: 304
Joined: April 18, 2014
Reputation:
92
RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 2, 2018 at 10:56 pm
For several years a close friend of mine was in a relationship I'd be hard pressed to categorize. His partner, while very honest about his situation, was actually participating in 2 relationships, the other was with a woman who was unaware of my friend and my friend was monogamous with him.
My friends knowledge of the woman's unawareness of his relationship with her partner triggered their break up when he pursued marriage with the woman, while insisting on maintaining the relationship with my friend.
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
Posts: 43162
Threads: 720
Joined: September 21, 2008
Reputation:
133
RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 3, 2018 at 12:00 am
(This post was last modified: April 3, 2018 at 12:05 am by Edwardo Piet.)
(April 2, 2018 at 5:51 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Unfortunately, it isn't quite that simple. Here is a nice video going over what you can tell about a species from the differences between males and females:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0Oa4Lp5...DDC3D&t=0s
Start at about 3:55.
The problem? Humans are confused. They have characteristics of BOTH monogamous and non-monogamous species! See 1:33:45 and on.
Speaking of the differences between sexes, are you familar with Steven Pinker?
(April 2, 2018 at 6:29 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: *Deidre* studies use statistics. And statistics means shit when it comes to how humans ought to be, it just shows how they are in a certain society, at a certain time.
And that is one of the big flaws in Psychology.
It's not exactly a flaw if its whole purpose is to study how humans are in the society they're studied in . . .
Naturalness/unnaturalness doesn't matter and to say that the good is natural, or the bad is unnatural is to commit the naturalistic fallacy. That's the key point, really.
There are some senses that monogamy is natural, and some senses that isn't. But it doesn't matter in either case.
What matters is "Is it healthy?" and "Does it make some people happy?" and I think the answers to that are "It can be" and "Yes sometimes". And I think the same answers are true for polygamy. So why does it matter?
I think it only matters if people actually think there's anything wrong with unnaturalness, or, indeed, if monogamy is considered 'transcendent' or 'supernatural' in some way, which is of course absurdly false.
Posts: 11697
Threads: 117
Joined: November 5, 2016
Reputation:
43
RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 3, 2018 at 3:31 am
(April 3, 2018 at 12:00 am)Hammy Wrote: (April 2, 2018 at 5:51 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Unfortunately, it isn't quite that simple. Here is a nice video going over what you can tell about a species from the differences between males and females:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0Oa4Lp5...DDC3D&t=0s
Start at about 3:55.
The problem? Humans are confused. They have characteristics of BOTH monogamous and non-monogamous species! See 1:33:45 and on.
Speaking of the differences between sexes, are you familar with Steven Pinker?
(April 2, 2018 at 6:29 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: *Deidre* studies use statistics. And statistics means shit when it comes to how humans ought to be, it just shows how they are in a certain society, at a certain time.
And that is one of the big flaws in Psychology.
It's not exactly a flaw if its whole purpose is to study how humans are in the society they're studied in . . .
Naturalness/unnaturalness doesn't matter and to say that the good is natural, or the bad is unnatural is to commit the naturalistic fallacy. That's the key point, really.
There are some senses that monogamy is natural, and some senses that isn't. But it doesn't matter in either case.
What matters is "Is it healthy?" and "Does it make some people happy?" and I think the answers to that are "It can be" and "Yes sometimes". And I think the same answers are true for polygamy. So why does it matter?
I think it only matters if people actually think there's anything wrong with unnaturalness, or, indeed, if monogamy is considered 'transcendent' or 'supernatural' in some way, which is of course absurdly false. Pinkers alright but he has pushed some BS idea's
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
Posts: 5813
Threads: 86
Joined: November 19, 2017
Reputation:
59
RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 3, 2018 at 3:40 am
OP: I think monogamy and polyamory are both natural. I can say for certain that monogamy is natural because when I'm seeing someone, she is all I think of.
Polyamory is natural too, though. What's unnatural about being attracted to more than one person? They're both natural.
Posts: 7677
Threads: 635
Joined: January 19, 2013
Reputation:
30
RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 3, 2018 at 10:30 am
(This post was last modified: April 3, 2018 at 10:32 am by WinterHold.)
I consider monogamy to be more of a custom than a "natural" trait.
It's very simple: if the "partner" is perfect; you will want to keep them forever.
Men are different than women; too. Females tend to be satisfied by a single mate; while males don't.
For "males" to change their natural traits; the "female spouse" must "the one". And vise versa
She must be the special one to keep. He must be special too.
But in other "relationships"; men are more inclined into changing partners, something women would never understand. So it's very not natural to take the "monogamist" path.
Posts: 20476
Threads: 447
Joined: June 16, 2014
Reputation:
111
RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 4, 2018 at 8:26 am
CL. Do you think marriage is a sacred act under God?
Do you think you'd be any different if you weren't religious?
If the answer is yes, then please stay religious.
No-one should stay together out of fear or guilt.
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
Posts: 23918
Threads: 300
Joined: June 25, 2011
Reputation:
151
RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 4, 2018 at 10:01 am
(This post was last modified: April 4, 2018 at 10:04 am by Whateverist.)
Marriage suits me. Agree with points already made about there obviously being variation in what suits people. I've only read the first page. Did any head butting issues come up?
Pretty sensitive of our OP to couch it interns of it being or not being unnatural. That way you are free to claim it as also natural rather than as the one and only natural.
Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
88
RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 4, 2018 at 10:41 am
(This post was last modified: April 4, 2018 at 10:49 am by Catholic_Lady.)
(April 4, 2018 at 8:26 am)ignoramus Wrote: CL. Do you think marriage is a sacred act under God?
Do you think you'd be any different if you weren't religious?
If the answer is yes, then please stay religious.
No-one should stay together out of fear or guilt.
*First answer: yes
*Second answer: Would I be different as a person if I was atheist? My faith is and always has been a tremendous influence in my life, so I'm sure I'd be different in some ways. Though impossible to say how or how much, since I've never been atheist.
*Your last comment there doesn't really follow though, since it assumes the only reason I'm with my husband if I'm religious is out of fear and guilt. Also, it's a bit condecending and offenssive to people of faith to say something like that. We are humans just like you, and just like many of you we have love for others and we have a desire for life long loyalty and commitment, despite the sacrifices which may come with that.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
Posts: 66374
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 4, 2018 at 10:46 am
(This post was last modified: April 4, 2018 at 10:50 am by The Grand Nudger.)
It's a useful question in that, if the answer is no..and I'm assuming it is, that you'd still want to be happily monogamous with your hubby even if you were an atheist or even if there were no god...then it strongly suggests that you're naturally..not supernaturally, monogamous.
The question itself is no more condescending or offensive than claiming some part of my marriage or personality for your god as "supernatural".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 19881
Threads: 324
Joined: July 31, 2016
Reputation:
34
RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 4, 2018 at 12:43 pm
(April 2, 2018 at 11:12 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I have my own opinions on this, which I'm sure people here can guess what they are just by looking at my username lol.
I'm curious to see views from people of this forum.
Please try not to get all technical (big pet peeve of mine lol). Just vote a simple "yes" or "no" for whatever would be your initial response to this issue. Discuss!
When I'm married or in a relationship I'm utterly monogamous, even if I'm on the other side of the planet. The longest time I've been with one woman was 13 years, is that "long term" enough?
|
