SCOTUS Tells Anti-Abortion Nuts To Go Fuck Themselves

[John V]

Me personally, I don't care if a fetus is considered a human being or not. There's a far more important point to consider in the abortion debate than the so-called humanity of something that relies on someone else's bodily resources for its survival. If women are allowed to be treated as fully human beings just like men, then they should have the right to be in full control of their reproductive rights. It would otherwise be a violation of her rights to demand she carry an unwanted fetus inside her own body all the way through to the end just to make some assholes happy (and at the expense of her own happiness), and it wouldn't be much better than slavery.

The obvious response to this is that, by that logic, a woman should be able to have a child euthanized if she thinks that would make her happier.

[The Grand Nudger]

[GrandizerII]

Me personally, I don't care if a fetus is considered a human being or not. There's a far more important point to consider in the abortion debate than the so-called humanity of something that relies on someone else's bodily resources for its survival. If women are allowed to be treated as fully human beings just like men, then they should have the right to be in full control of their reproductive rights. It would otherwise be a violation of her rights to demand she carry an unwanted fetus inside her own body all the way through to the end just to make some assholes happy (and at the expense of her own happiness), and it wouldn't be much better than slavery.

The obvious response to this is that, by that logic, a woman should be able to have a child euthanized if she thinks that would make her happier.

Yeah, "obvious" and "logic" ...

[John V]

What are you talking about?  Just because I see a 20+ week abortion as a moral dilemma doesn’t mean that I’m placing expectations on when and how women should be having sex.  

What you don't get is that I feel the same way - just because I'm against abortion doesn't mean that I'm placing expectations on when and how women should be having sex. Yet, you and others keep trying to push that narrative.

I feel like we’re talking past each other. I have no problem with the fact that contraception is fallible. The point I’m attempting to make is that we seem to both agree that people are going to have sex (hopefully safely as possible) in spite of the known risk of pregnancy, and that preaching ‘abstinence only’ is a waste of time. The data reflect this.  

And I haven't preached abstinence only. You're pushing a false narrative.

Where we differ is that you believe (I think) that the option of abortion post-conception should be prohibited except in cases of rape and incest. Correct me if I’m wrong. 

And you'd be fine with it being prohibited post 20 weeks. Yes, that's where we differ. In my view, we can identify unique individuals by their DNA, and there's unique DNA for the baby at conception. You use other criteria. And I can get that. We agree that there's human life, and that human life should be protected even at the expense of the mother's convenience, we just disagree on when it counts as human life. You noted yourself earlier that this is what the discussion should be. Yet, you keep falling back on women's right to have sex.

Why do you think sex feels good in the first place? From an evolutionary point of view we're nothing more than machines that pass along our DNA.

I, OTOH, don’t think we should be quite so restrictive. I think the issue deserves more consideration than that.  That is my personal, individual moral judgement, and I understand that people disagree.  I’m open to dialogue on the subject.

With whom are you open to dialogue? People who are at 19 or 21 weeks? You sure don't seem open to rational discussion with people who choose conception as the cutoff.

What I do see as an objective problem with the abortion debate is people who just want to circle back to the sex

You mean yourself? Cause you're the on who keeps circling back to the sex.

What on earth are you taking about?!  It’s like you are incapable of talking about unwanted pregnancies without the notion of blame attached to them, lol. I am not slut-shaming a women for wanting an abortion, even if I believe that abortion would be immoral.  Why is this concept so hard for you to grasp?

Because that's exactly what you do with people who would be more restrictive than you.

[GrandizerII]

There's nothing rational about believing that a one cell can be a human being ...

[The Valkyrie]

Me personally, I don't care if a fetus is considered a human being or not. There's a far more important point to consider in the abortion debate than the so-called humanity of something that relies on someone else's bodily resources for its survival. If women are allowed to be treated as fully human beings just like men, then they should have the right to be in full control of their reproductive rights. It would otherwise be a violation of her rights to demand she carry an unwanted fetus inside her own body all the way through to the end just to make some assholes happy (and at the expense of her own happiness), and it wouldn't be much better than slavery.

The obvious response to this is that, by that logic, a woman should be able to have a child euthanized if she thinks that would make her happier.

WTF??

[GrandizerII]

The obvious response to this is that, by that logic, a woman should be able to have a child euthanized if she thinks that would make her happier.

WTF??

Apparently he thinks the analogy makes sense. I just can't ...

[downbeatplumb]

Years ago my wife had a miscarriage very early in her pregnancy (until that point she hadn't been fully aware she was pregnant, only slightly suspicious).
It wasn't much more than a bundle of cells.
It was not a child to us and we did not mourn it.

[John V]

WTF??

Apparently he thinks the analogy makes sense. I just can't ...

Key words: "I don't care if a fetus is considered a human being or not."

You're saying straight out that it's acceptable to kill a human being if it's dependent on another human being and that second human being is unhappy about the situation.

Those circumstances don't end at the moment of birth.

[Silver]

A fetus is a "potential" human being. It is NOT a "human being".