Human Reason and Christian Denominations

[Drich]

Ah, the sweet heresy of radical grace.  

You think it doesn't matter what you do, only who you know..but I'm pretty sure jesus made it clear that your actions did matter....and that it was about who -he- knew...not you.

They do not matter in so far as a matter of salvation. Meaning there isn't a sin you can commit in this life that can not be forgiven. The do matter as to define who you are when you get to heaven.

Most of you can not discern what it means to be saved and the degree in which your salvation will afford you.

For instance in the parable for the one who was given much He doubled what he has and what the guy who buried his gifts was taken from him and given to the guy with the most.

Right in the parable "salvation" was already a past even, and now Jesus is talking about how your action matter. we know salvation is a past even as each Servant was indeed a servant of the master, and in turn was given a year's wage to invest on the master's behalf. The aster does not throw away his money/gifts to those in whom he has no stake.

So again, what we do with the gift's and understanding we have will be judged not on a iron bar of strict law, (As again we do not have a book of Christian law as the Jews did.) but on a sliding scale of what we have been given over to understand.

This opens the gates of heaven to anyone of any religion potentially.

So let's look at your verse scrap
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Jesus is showing that for some even great christians/ people in whom we think are strong in the faith, are not/have not even been saved because they life outside the will of God. What is the will of God? It is to follow the whole law and not break a command which was expanded to include sinful thought. -OR Seek atonement from Christ.

Ask yourself what is it to attone?
to rebuke or turn meaning to hate the sin you once defended

Does it mean you never commit sin?
no if we could live without sinning Jesus would not need come to save us.

Does it mean you never sin again?
Again if we could do this at any point then Jesus would not need be here.

Does it mean you learn to hate sin and reject it even if you are a slave to it?
Yes, to atone means to repent and to repent means to have a 180 view of the acts that you once loved and or defended.

Jesus is speaking to the 'christian' who still loves their sin, not to the slave of sin who hates it but is still a slave to it.

[vorlon13]

Except Mormons.

[Drich]

Gee, I wonder.  What possible reason could paul have for coopting a religious movement and asserting himself as the indespensible man....assuming there actually was a "paul", ofc.

Must have been real belief.  No one has -ever- done that for any other reason.  

Because Jesus blinded Him on the road to damascus and redirected him and his life to serve Christ.

[The Grand Nudger]

They do not matter in so far as a matter of salvation. Meaning there isn't a sin you can commit in this life that can not be forgiven. The do matter as to define who you are when you get to heaven.

Heaven has tier based packages.  Wonder what an upgrade costs, two goats a bag of sand and your youngest daughter?  

This opens the gates of heaven to anyone of any religion potentially.

Now..wait a minute...I'm pretty sure jesus said you only got in if you believed in him?

You guys are just making shit up as you go.  Not entirely unlike "Paul".

[Drich]

Except Mormons.

well mormons don't believe in the bible or the chirst of the bible.

Jesus Christ is a completely different creature. They have parallels but in the end the Christ of the latter day saints is a completely different being than the God of the bible.

[The Grand Nudger]

How many of these "christ" guys are there...anyway?

[Drich]

They do not matter in so far as a matter of salvation. Meaning there isn't a sin you can commit in this life that can not be forgiven. The do matter as to define who you are when you get to heaven.

Heaven has tier based packages.  Wonder what an upgrade costs, two goats a bag of sand and your youngest daughter?  

This opens the gates of heaven to anyone of any religion potentially.

Now..wait a minute...I'm pretty sure jesus said you only got in if you believed in him?

You guys are just making shit up as you go.  Not entirely unlike "Paul".

No Jesus said no man comes to the Father but by Him.

Meaning no man/NO RELIGION (Christian OR Otherwise) will matter. They/We are all judged on an indivisual level by Christ. Hence No man will be allowed to approach the Father unless Christ Himself vetts them first.

Which makes the religions of the world meaningless. as no one has an in, or the final word on who is saved and who is not. no man made institution can say if you follow our rules you are guaranteed a spot in Heaven. N0!

Jesus and only Jesus decided who is and who is not "christian" We at our very best can only claim to follow Christ. 

I can promise you Christians will not be the only religion represented in Heaven. I can think of 4 religious sects the bible itself mentions. All of which funnel through Jesus before the father.

[The Grand Nudger]

"Jesus" said alot of things, lol.  How do you pick out of the many things shoved into the mouth of a god, which ones you're going to consider authoritative?  

Or, another way of asking the same question..who;'s really the doorman for heaven here..the lord of creation..or you?

[Drich]

"Jesus" said alot of things, lol.  How do you pick out of the many things shoved into the mouth of a god, which ones you're going to consider authoritative?  

Or, another way of asking the same question..who;'s really the doorman for heaven here..the lord of creation..or you?

Sorry missed this little treasure.

Again back to the parables to answer your question

How do you pick out of the many things shoved into the mouth of a god, which ones you're going to consider authoritative?  

As with the man with one talent he is responsible for what he was given/what he was exposed to and what he can comprehend.

Meaning if God gave me the basics of salvation which usally looks like legalism/do your best and not break the rules and ask for forgiveness, then I am required to invest in God with that understanding. meaning Got to live my life that way. if/when I do and do so earnestly God will give us greater understanding.

Meaning one day you could be reading a passage you've read 100 times before and suddenly it takes on a new meaning. NOW you have to assimilate that new meaning into the rest of your understanding. If you can not recocile this new teaching and you know it to be a good teaching then you must start questioning the stuff you thought you knew... like living a life as close to God's rules as possible. and on and on till one day you understand it is no about morality once you are saved. it is about God's righteousness, not right and wrong but what God allows when He allows it. That is why in the bible in one form or another God breaks all of the oT law Himself by directing people like david or Paul to poo poo on tradition.

In short we are to accept what we can understand from God, yet do not let our understanding/freedom trip up someone who lives in the chains of God's law. Meaning we must not let our freedom to do what another may consider a sin infront of them tempting to do the same. Even though it is not a sin for us. it is a sin for them. Have them sin with an unclear heart counts against you in all that you think you know.

Or, another way of asking the same question..who;'s really the doorman for heaven here..the lord of creation..or you?

He is without a doubt.
but can't 'we' share the same process? after all it is all spelled out in scripture?

[The Grand Nudger]

Apparently not.  I've performed the ritual....the spirits didn't show up.