RE: Best Theistic Arguments
April 10, 2018 at 9:31 am
(This post was last modified: April 10, 2018 at 9:31 am by Mister Agenda.)
Without some sort of abiogenesis, life never began. Yet we have life.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
Best Theistic Arguments
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RE: Best Theistic Arguments
April 10, 2018 at 9:31 am
(This post was last modified: April 10, 2018 at 9:31 am by Mister Agenda.)
Without some sort of abiogenesis, life never began. Yet we have life.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
RE: Best Theistic Arguments
April 10, 2018 at 10:07 am
(This post was last modified: April 10, 2018 at 10:14 am by Neo-Scholastic.)
(April 9, 2018 at 2:01 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:(April 8, 2018 at 5:29 pm)ShirkahnW Wrote: I am going to debate a theist over the existence of god soon. What are the best arguments you ever heard from theists? Any tips on what topic to avoid in such an discussion? And the atheist position is usually "it just is". It really boils down to the the Principle of Sufficient Reason. If you're going to debate a generic "theist" then you need sufficient reason to dismiss sufficient reason :-) That said, a basic principle of debating is to fully understand the arguments of your opponent to the point of being able to defend them yourself. If you're asking the question then you probably are not prepared for a debate. Quote:Making the positive case that 'god' -as if you or anyone else knew what this word refers to- does not exist, will just allow them to turn all your best points agains you. Much better to stick to insisting that terms be defined and then challenge the legitimacy of the supernatural. If not even one noncontroversial exemplar of anything supernatural can be produced, then that set can safely be assumed to be empty. So basically, your advice is to play semantic games and argue over the meaning of words. That sounds more like sophistry than reasoned debate. It is the attempt to shift the debate away from the question of "that something is" to "what something is". It is a dishonest tactic. There is nothing of which anyone has complete knowledge. We are constantly learning and that is every bit true in theology as it is the natural sciences and mathematics.
"You're taking it out of context!!!"
Dying to live, living to die.
RE: Best Theistic Arguments
April 10, 2018 at 2:16 pm
(This post was last modified: April 10, 2018 at 2:17 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The term for a "generic theist" is a deist, Neo..and there's no need to dismiss sufficient reason in order to debate a damned thing with them.
Atheists don;t believe in -gods-....how many fucking times do you need to be told this, honestly? Any given atheist is free to assert reasons, causes, and grounds..from here unto eternity.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(April 8, 2018 at 5:29 pm)ShirkahnW Wrote: I am going to debate a theist over the existence of god soon. What are the best arguments you ever heard from theists? Any tips on what topic to avoid in such an discussion? None of the arguments used by theists hold up to scrutiny, they are all fallacious. Kalam CA, at first blush, seems like a decent argument, but just a bit of evaluation, finds the fallacies. The ontological argument, teleological argument, TAG are also massively fallacious, but they can be a bit difficult to dissect. Don't get into arguing details of whatever holy book they follow. That puts you on their home field. Make sure they understand that their holy book is NOT evidence for their claim, it IS the claim. I would recommend watching a bunch of Matt Dillahunty's debates and vids on YouTube. A break down on refutations of various theistic arguments can be found on: https://rationalwiki.org/ You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence. RE: Best Theistic Arguments
April 10, 2018 at 2:43 pm
(This post was last modified: April 10, 2018 at 2:44 pm by Whateverist.)
(April 10, 2018 at 10:07 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:Quote:Making the positive case that 'god' -as if you or anyone else knew what this word refers to- does not exist, will just allow them to turn all your best points agains you. Much better to stick to insisting that terms be defined and then challenge the legitimacy of the supernatural. If not even one noncontroversial exemplar of anything supernatural can be produced, then that set can safely be assumed to be empty. It may seem so from your current point of view. But expecting someone to defend the position that the special something you have in mind but can't produce does not exist, is pretty presumptuous. I don't care if your figment exists or doesn't exist. As you know I have a perfectly natural explanation to satisfy myself I know what it is that you and gazillions of others before you are on about. The possibility that the explanation involves something from the supernatural zone, to my sensibility, is laughable. But you go ahead and pat yourself on the back about the sincerity you are eager to bring to the debate you so want to have. I simply am not interested in discussing literal gods. (April 10, 2018 at 2:16 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Atheists don;t believe in -gods-....how many fucking times do you need to be told this, honestly? Not all atheists agree with the 'lack of belief' canard, so why should I? (April 10, 2018 at 10:07 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:(April 9, 2018 at 2:01 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Their arguments normally consist of. But theists never say HOW god is supposed to be responsible for anything, it just "IS". There is often a scientific answer or at least viable idea that explains the thing they propose is god, but to the theist just wants to believe. You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid. Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis. (April 10, 2018 at 2:45 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:(April 10, 2018 at 2:16 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Atheists don;t believe in -gods-....how many fucking times do you need to be told this, honestly? Bob Saget!
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Best Theistic Arguments
April 10, 2018 at 3:15 pm
(This post was last modified: April 10, 2018 at 3:20 pm by The Valkyrie.)
(April 10, 2018 at 2:45 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:(April 10, 2018 at 2:16 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Atheists don;t believe in -gods-....how many fucking times do you need to be told this, honestly? Not all Christians believe in worshipping their god the same way. They even disagree on parts of their holy book. So, why should we accept their beliefs until they all agree?
Dying to live, living to die.
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