Do Nonhuman Animals Have Souls?

[Catholic_Lady]

I agree with CL. Nonhuman animals are not morally responsible for their actions. Humans have a capacity for higher reasoning and that's what makes them morally responsible.

Yes, thank you lol. It is a pet peeve of mine when some people on this forum try to act as though other animals are the same as humans when it comes to morality. It's dishonest, because no one actually believes that, they just like to say it.

---

I don't believe you think animals have moral culpability. If a bear attacks a human and kills him, you think the same of that bear as you would a murderer? That it' a horrible, immoral bear, just as the human who murders another is a horrible, immoral person?

A couple years ago an alligator in Disney attacked and killed a two year old little boy. Not for one second did it cross anyone's mind to feel any sense of outrage at that alligator. If it had been some dude who had captured and killed that little boy though, it'd be a different story. Because we know animals cannot be held morally accountable like humans can.

You don't think common household pets don't understand morality?  They do.  Use a negative tone with them, and the look on their faces will inform you that they understand the wrong they have done.  That is moral culpability.  

Your bear reference is raw nature.  Of course raw nature is going to be different than evolved nature.  

Yet, I have a story:

We were driving and attempting to turn onto a side street.  We were becoming frustrated because traffic was held up.  It turned out there was an injured wild animal on the road.  Know what happened?

People were kind enough to help that animal.  It was a raccoon, and they're not known to be friendly.  This creature allowed itself to be picked up and carried over to the side of the road, since it had already been hit by a vehicle, because it had the moral capability to understand that it was being helped rather than harmed.  The poor thing, as well as the actions of the people around, sent shivers through my heart.

I have 7 cats and am an animal lover.

Feeling scared when they did something they've been *trained* not to do is not morality. It's operant conditioning.

And I never said animals don't experience emotions or aren't sentient. That's not the same as having moral responsibility and being morally culpable for actions. This conversation is so silly.

[Foxaèr]

I agree with CL. Nonhuman animals are not morally responsible for their actions. Humans have a capacity for higher reasoning and that's what makes them morally responsible.

Yes, thank you lol. It is a pet peeve of mine when some people on this forum try to act as though other animals are the same as humans when it comes to morality. It's dishonest, because no one actually believes that, they just like to say it.

---

You don't think common household pets don't understand morality?  They do.  Use a negative tone with them, and the look on their faces will inform you that they understand the wrong they have done.  That is moral culpability.  

Your bear reference is raw nature.  Of course raw nature is going to be different than evolved nature.  

Yet, I have a story:

We were driving and attempting to turn onto a side street.  We were becoming frustrated because traffic was held up.  It turned out there was an injured wild animal on the road.  Know what happened?

People were kind enough to help that animal.  It was a raccoon, and they're not known to be friendly.  This creature allowed itself to be picked up and carried over to the side of the road, since it had already been hit by a vehicle, because it had the moral capability to understand that it was being helped rather than harmed.  The poor thing, as well as the actions of the people around, sent shivers through my heart.

I have 7 cats and am an animals lover.

Feeling scared when they did something they've been *trained* not to do is not morality. It's operant conditioning.

And I never said animals don't experience emotions or aren't sentient. That's not the same as having moral responsibility and being morally culpable for actions. This conversation is so silly.

Operant conditioning?  Sounds like every day human life to me.  "Hi, how are you?"  "Good"  That's conditioning.

I actually work toward eradicating that conditioning, which I suppose makes me non-human.

[Catholic_Lady]

Yes, thank you lol. It is a pet peeve of mine when some people on this forum try to act as though other animals are the same as humans when it comes to morality. It's dishonest, because no one actually believes that, they just like to say it.

---

I have 7 cats and am an animals lover.

Feeling scared when they did something they've been *trained* not to do is not morality. It's operant conditioning.

And I never said animals don't experience emotions or aren't sentient. That's not the same as having moral responsibility and being morally culpable for actions. This conversation is so silly.

Operant conditioning?  Sounds like every day human life to me.  "Hi, how are you?"  "Good"  That's conditioning.

I actually work toward eradicating that conditioning, which I suppose makes me non-human.

If my cats get sprayed with a water bottle every time they're on the table, they're going to be scared when I catch them on the table because they don't want to be sprayed (conditioning). Not because they are able to comprehend that they did something unethical.

[Foxaèr]

Why would you even spray your cats? If you wouldn't do it to your kids, you shouldn't do it to your pets.

[Godscreated]

Some Christians say yes they will be in heaven and others say they won't, either way there will be animals in heaven we are told this in the scriptures. Now whither these animals lived on earth or not I do not know. I would like to believe all my Rotties will be in heaven with me, but to be honest I do not believe they will be. I can always hope for a surprise though.

GC

[vulcanlogician]

Lutrinae, CL is right. It's conditioning when like your dog shits on the floor and they get all nervous when you walk in the door. The dog doesn't understand why it's wrong only that it's wrong. And I use "wrong" in the latter instance loosely. The dog doesn't understand that now you have to go through all the trouble of cleaning it up.

Even humans at a very young age are not morally responsible. We use positive reinforcement and punishment on children to condition them to obey (for instance don't touch the stove) at an early age. But they don't know why what they are doing is wrong. That is a key ingredient for moral responsibility.

When I was two years old, I pulled my mom's gearshift and sent the car drifting backwards into the neighbor's house. I had no way of knowing what would happen when I did this. Nor was I responsible for my action. If I did that today, knowing full well what would happen as a result, I would be (by definition) morally responsible.

[Catholic_Lady]

Some Christians say yes they will be in heaven and others say they won't, either way there will be animals in heaven we are told this in the scriptures. Now whither these animals lived on earth or not I do not know. I would like to believe all my Rotties will be in heaven with me, but to be honest I do not believe they will be. I can always hope for a surprise though.

GC

I feel so sad when I think of all the animals who suffered or were abused, and then just died after having such a difficult and painful life. I want things to be made right for each one of them.

My reasoning is this: if I love animals enough that I *want* them to have an afterlife where they will live peacefully without suffering, it's hard to imagine God not feeling the same way. For as much as I love animals, He loves them more. He created them and is their Father.

[The Grand Nudger]

Animals don't go to heaven when they die.  Any animals that exist in heaven are created there.  

So sayeth the mighty Cathol.

[JackRussell]

Is it just Homo Sapiens Sapiens that are ensouled? What about our cousins? Did Denisovans or Neanderthals have souls and at what point did God decide to put a soul in her first Human?

I know, i know, it was Adam.

[Little Rik]

It is insane to see people and Christian in particular saying that they have feeling for animals yet they eat them.
This is absolutely behind the joke.
It is pure madness.