Burden proof is coupled with burden to listen.

[Mystic]

If a person tells a person they have a burden proof and the person ought to bring, it's very simple to understand this: likewise there is burden for the person being presented the proof to listen attentively and sincerely and seek to understand the other side fully, not just to bicker.

Lest those without proof are equated with those upon proof, and lest, conjecture is equated with what logic and reason proves and lest the deceivers who manipulate people are equated with the true guides and leaders.

[SaStrike]

^THIS

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

If a person tells a person they have a burden proof and the person ought to bring, it's very simple to understand this: likewise there is burden for the person being presented the proof to listen attentively and sincerely and seek to understand the other side fully, not just to bicker.

Lest those without proof are equated with those upon proof, and lest, conjecture is equated with what logic and reason proves and lest the deceivers who manipulate people are equated with the true guides and leaders.

You realize that words are supposed to be arranged in a particular sequence in order for them to be comprehensible, right?

Boru

[Gawdzilla Sama]

How much bullshit do you expect us to put up with before you've succeeded in ensuring that nobody is listening to you?

[vulcanlogician]

Yeah, MK. You didn't articulate your point very well. I think your heart's in the right place though. People should listen more carefully to a perspective with which they disagree. I get that. Bickering accomplishes little. You really did lose me at the end there.

[Mystic]

If a person tells a person they have a burden proof and the person ought to bring, it's very simple to understand this: likewise there is burden for the person being presented the proof to listen attentively and sincerely and seek to understand the other side fully, not just to bicker.

Lest those without proof are equated with those upon proof, and lest, conjecture is equated with what logic and reason proves and lest the deceivers who manipulate people are equated with the true guides and leaders.

You realize that words are supposed to be arranged in a particular sequence in order for them to be comprehensible, right?

Boru

If something is comprehensible to many people and there is a faction people saying all of it doesn't make sense, it has no meaning,  to me at least it seems the words are comprehensible and it's a defense mechanism against something being proven to those people.

If a book has parables and a lot of people claim to comprehend them,  I would take them more seriously then people who just say "what can such a parable mean", or "what would God mean by a such a meaningless phrase/parable" sort of thing.

When I read fiction books, I assume intelligence behind the author even if I don't agree with them, and do my best to make the literature worthwhile as a learning experience. This is something humans ought to do with every story, whether they believe it or not, whether fiction or non-fiction.

God is the light of all light, the light of all things, and who is blind, is blind only against themselves.  Those who understand the metaphors of Quran do so because they came with attitude to learn and not bicker. Of course, those parables weren't clear to anyone, and is it as God says,  none comprehend them but knowledgeable ones.

The reasoning used in Quran is of course at much higher level than anything I have presented. I been with my dialogues just scratching the surface of it's elaborate proofs and insights that only can be known through the proper doors and avenues, and God is to be known by his beautiful names, those humans who are instances of the holy spirit and his face and image.

---

Yeah, MK. You didn't articulate your point very well. I think your heart's in the right place though. People should listen more carefully to a perspective with which they disagree. I get that. Bickering accomplishes little. You really did lose me at the end there.

I thought Christians and Jews lacked guidance in that most of it was corrupted. When I read the Torah and most of the Bible, I realized, very little of it is corrupted, sure a lot of digresses and there are some immoral teachings, but most of it is on point and in a eloquent manifest manner, that the truth is still manifested in it.

The Torah is very eloquent and beautiful. You guys have serious comprehension issues if you don't know how it proves God and his religion, and the Guides who are the true Kings and Names of God that no person should mix leadership of others with them, because there are no other paths and doors to God but them.

And so much of the gospels are absolutely stunning in what is attributed to Jesus.

The Quran comments on the Torah and Gospels and other divine books in the earth eloquently.

[ignoramus]

MK, when you say things like God is the light of all light ...

Hey, what happened to your promise to cut down on the chopra bulldust!
I think you had no intention of doing such thing.
It was just for attention...

You're not special anymore...
You're just a liar for Allah!

[brewer]

[edit]

God is the light of all light, the light of all things, and who is blind, is blind only against themselves.  Those who understand the metaphors of Quran do so because they came with attitude to learn and not bicker. Of course, those parables weren't clear to anyone, and is it as God says,  none comprehend them but knowledgeable ones.

The reasoning used in Quran is of course at much higher level than anything I have presented. I been with my dialogues just scratching the surface of it's elaborate proofs and insights that only can be known through the proper doors and avenues, and God is to be known by his beautiful names, those humans who are instances of the holy spirit and his face and image.

bold mine

Prove it. 

There is a difference between questing, understanding yet dismissing as lack of proof, and bickering.

[Mystic]

[edit]

God is the light of all light, the light of all things, and who is blind, is blind only against themselves.  Those who understand the metaphors of Quran do so because they came with attitude to learn and not bicker. Of course, those parables weren't clear to anyone, and is it as God says,  none comprehend them but knowledgeable ones.

The reasoning used in Quran is of course at much higher level than anything I have presented. I been with my dialogues just scratching the surface of it's elaborate proofs and insights that only can be known through the proper doors and avenues, and God is to be known by his beautiful names, those humans who are instances of the holy spirit and his face and image.

bold mine

Prove it. 

There is a difference between questing, understanding yet dismissing as lack of proof, and bickering.

I have done so, I have in detail proved this, among them is the Value thread with the moon analogy.

[Minimalist]

The reasoning used in Quran is of course at much higher level than anything I have presented.

No, my friend.  That's where you go wrong.  The koran is primitive poetry written to keep primitive people in line.

In that, it is very similar to all other supposedly holy horseshit.