Civility subsection suggestion

[Homeless Nutter]

Uhhhh it all ends up there anyway.

Sure, but normally we can mercilessly take the p*ss out of it.

With or without us being rude to theists they're gonna express their crazy ideas anyway.

Perhaps. But if I have to get creative and make my insults and mockery pass for "civil" - they should have to put some effort into finding new ways of saying "god did it"...

[pocaracas]

Haven't read the thread but it seems like a way for theists to reclaim the respect and deference for their beliefs that they are used to in the real world. Fuck that. The value of these forums is that it allows atheists the chance to speak their minds when they may have to hide it in their everyday lives.

I think it's a way to get the theists to actually listen to what we tell them, without them (nor us) having to sift through and ignore (if they/us can) the uncivil posts.

[johan]

If we were all adults here there wouldn't be your desire for a special sub forum.

Maybe I'm being overly charitable, but I feel people here are generally good about following the rules. If someone wants to shit post, they have the entire rest of the forum to do so. I can't fathom why any person would have such a hard time with this.

I don't browse specific forum sub-sections. Ever. I use the new posts button pretty much exclusively so all I see is a list of threads and I don't bother (nor would I want to have to bother) to pay attention to which sub forum a particular thread happens to be in. It has nothing to do with not wanting to follow the rules, I've got no problem with that. Its that you will have people who genuinely aren't aware of what sub forum they're posting in. 

And besides that, I'd be a bit concerned about a sub forum with rules that are so subjective. No offensive posts? Who gets to define what qualifies as offensive? Who gets to define what is considered an insult?

I think homosexuals are choosing to be homosexuals and I think those who support homosexuals are ruining this county. That is a valid opinion and contains no four letter words nor name calling. But I find it pretty offensive and insulting. And I sure I could find statements that I personally do not consider to be offensive or insulting but which others would be upset by.

I get the idea and I understand why it seems appealing. But ultimately you're just going to end up including people of one opinion of what's offensive and excluding those with valid but differing opinions.

[robvalue]

On the plus side, it might lead to some obnoxious people getting themselves banned quicker.

[Amarok]

I must say i oppose this idea . It seems overly complicated and unneeded.

[vulcanlogician]

Maybe I'm being overly charitable, but I feel people here are generally good about following the rules. If someone wants to shit post, they have the entire rest of the forum to do so. I can't fathom why any person would have such a hard time with this.

I don't browse specific forum sub-sections. Ever. I use the new posts button pretty much exclusively so all I see is a list of threads and I don't bother (nor would I want to have to bother) to pay attention to which sub forum a particular thread happens to be in. It has nothing to do with not wanting to follow the rules, I've got no problem with that. Its that you will have people who genuinely aren't aware of what sub forum they're posting in. 

And besides that, I'd be a bit concerned about a sub forum with rules that are so subjective. No offensive posts? Who gets to define what qualifies as offensive? Who gets to define what is considered an insult?

I think homosexuals are choosing to be homosexuals and I think those who support homosexuals are ruining this county. That is a valid opinion and contains no four letter words nor name calling. But I find it pretty offensive and insulting. And I sure I could find statements that I personally do not consider to be offensive or insulting but which others would be upset by.

I get the idea and I understand why it seems appealing. But ultimately you're just going to end up including people of one opinion of what's offensive and excluding those with valid but differing opinions.

I think you made some valid points here, but others I challenge.

You're so right about using the "new posts" button. I often browse the forums this way, and seldom do I check where I'm posting. Unless there is some way to signify that you are posting to the subforum, a lot of people are going to break the rules accidentally. Is there a way to resolve this? Because there would almost have to be.

"I think homosexuals are choosing to be homosexuals and I think those who support homosexuals are ruining this county." Would have to be allowable in any part of the forums as far as I'm concerned... as well as a possible response to it: "I think that is a bigoted position that is born from ignorance." Both of these must be allowed anywhere on the forum. "Fuck you, you homophobic dickwad," would be an example of something disallowed in the civility section, as well as any slurs or inflammatory remarks from the theists about homosexuals.

I see what you mean though about it being a sticky issue. As I said before, I like the sentiment, but it could turn out to be problematic. One solution could be to go ahead and create the subforum on a trial basis, completely enforced by self policing with occasional reminders from mods... but no real consequences for breaking the subforum rules. After all, the introduction threads are handled in that way, and things seem to work there.

Anyway, I like the idea for what it's trying to achieve, but I do have some reservations.

[John V]

I can see us having a trial period, like Steel said, with a subset of approved members. If it doesn't cause too much overhead we could continue it. To be honest, we probably need to recruit a few more staff members anyway.

Ok, I'm calling it. A popular Christian member is going to be moderator here soon ...

OK, I'll be a mod.

Oh wait, you said popular...

[I_am_not_mafia]

You're so right about using the "new posts" button. I often browse the forums this way, and seldom do I check where I'm posting. Unless there is some way to signify that you are posting to the subforum, a lot of people are going to break the rules accidentally. Is there a way to resolve this? Because there would almost have to be.

I use the "new posts" button as well. On TTA the Personal Issues & support section has a bright pink background whereas the rest of the forum has a black background. It's a great visual cue that the person is needs help and to try and be supportive. The section is heavily moderated as well so the moment there's any shit posting it gets stamped down on.

The civility forum would need something similar if it were to work. But TTAs PI&S section works because most people have a genuine amount of empathy and feeling for others even if they do not agree on certain issues. Also it wouldn't be so easy for the mods to stamp down on offensive comments if two sides are discussing an issue rather than one side asking for much needed help.

[Catholic_Lady]

I don't browse specific forum sub-sections. Ever. I use the new posts button pretty much exclusively so all I see is a list of threads and I don't bother (nor would I want to have to bother) to pay attention to which sub forum a particular thread happens to be in. It has nothing to do with not wanting to follow the rules, I've got no problem with that. Its that you will have people who genuinely aren't aware of what sub forum they're posting in. 

And besides that, I'd be a bit concerned about a sub forum with rules that are so subjective. No offensive posts? Who gets to define what qualifies as offensive? Who gets to define what is considered an insult?

I think homosexuals are choosing to be homosexuals and I think those who support homosexuals are ruining this county. That is a valid opinion and contains no four letter words nor name calling. But I find it pretty offensive and insulting. And I sure I could find statements that I personally do not consider to be offensive or insulting but which others would be upset by.

I get the idea and I understand why it seems appealing. But ultimately you're just going to end up including people of one opinion of what's offensive and excluding those with valid but differing opinions.

I think you made some valid points here, but others I challenge.

You're so right about using the "new posts" button. I often browse the forums this way, and seldom do I check where I'm posting. Unless there is some way to signify that you are posting to the subforum, a lot of people are going to break the rules accidentally. Is there a way to resolve this? Because there would almost have to be.

"I think homosexuals are choosing to be homosexuals and I think those who support homosexuals are ruining this county." Would have to be allowable in any part of the forums as far as I'm concerned... as well as a possible response to it: "I think that is a bigoted position that is born from ignorance." Both of these must be allowed anywhere on the forum. "Fuck you, you homophobic dickwad," would be an example of something disallowed in the civility section, as well as any slurs or inflammatory remarks from the theists about homosexuals.

I see what you mean though about it being a sticky issue. As I said before, I like the sentiment, but it could turn out to be problematic. One solution could be to go ahead and create the subforum on a trial basis, completely enforced by self policing with occasional reminders from mods... but no real consequences for breaking the subforum rules. After all, the introduction threads are handled in that way, and things seem to work there.

Anyway, I like the idea for what it's trying to achieve, but I do have some reservations.

I would agree with what you were saying would be allowed vs disallowed on the third paragraph there.

As for how to tell if a thread under "Today's Posts" was from the civility subforum? One solution could be making the titles from those threads show up in red.

[robvalue]

You're so right about using the "new posts" button. I often browse the forums this way, and seldom do I check where I'm posting. Unless there is some way to signify that you are posting to the subforum, a lot of people are going to break the rules accidentally. Is there a way to resolve this? Because there would almost have to be.

I use the "new posts" button as well. On TTA the Personal Issues & support section has a bright pink background whereas the rest of the forum has a black background. It's a great visual cue that the person is needs help and to try and be supportive. The section is heavily moderated as well so the moment there's any shit posting it gets stamped down on.

The civility forum would need something similar if it were to work. But TTAs PI&S section works because most people have a genuine amount of empathy and feeling for others even if they do not agree on certain issues. Also it wouldn't be so easy for the mods to stamp down on offensive comments if two sides are discussing an issue rather than one side asking for much needed help.

I do the same thing. Yeah, a colour cue would be essential to saving the mods endless headaches. I suggest red, the colour of rivers filled with blood of the nonbelievers. Or purple. Green. I don't fucking care!