Civility subsection suggestion

[Whateverist]

Uh oh, it says "Debating is to be civil".... what does that meeeannnn!!! Lol

It just seems simple to you because you're good at it and have loads of experience.  It is pretty hard to spell out if one isn't motivated in that way to begin with.

[Catholic_Lady]

See, I don't believe that though. I think if someone was having a discussion with friends/family at the dinner table, or in a classroom setting with their peers, they would know pretttty well how to stay civil...

[Fireball]

See, I don't believe that though. I think if someone was having a discussion with friends/family at the dinner table, or in a classroom setting with their peers, they would know pretttty well how to stay civil...

This place isn't your family's dinner table. I'd bet money that none of them mention atheism. My take is that you are attempting to make this place a "more civil" place to promulgate your beliefs here. You might as well give it up now. Have you had any success in "bringing another into the fold" here? You are just going to have to accept that there are places on the internet that don't live up to your expectations. Which, of course, leads me to the question of why you even post here. You seem like a nice person. You aren't going to control the people here, end of story.

[Joods]

Maybe rewording and tightening the flaming rule a bit would alleviate CL's concerns while not having to resort to dicing the site up with sub forums. I mean, insults can be fun, and I've run afoul of the flaming rule as it's stated now. But, there's absolutely no need for anyone to pitch an insult in every single post they make in a thread.

The problem is people don’t report this often enough. If someone is pitching an insult in every post, the best thing members can do is report one of the posts and mention in the report comment that they are doing it multiple times.

We don't need another sub-forum. What we need to have happen is a better handling of those who constantly skirt the line but don't actually cross it, within the forums that we already have now. They are intentionally being obtuse and flirting with the rules because they know they won't get disciplined. It isn't rocket science and the people engaging in this behavior do it to piss off other people. They need to either get a serious time out or they need to go all together because clearly, they don't give a crap about being civil.

A good example of this is the individual who continually brings up quotes from the past so they can be used against someone who disagrees with him. And it's outright bullshit because he actually does this, not with the intention of keeping with the Prime Directive or the topic, but with the intention of getting a jab in where it's uncalled for. Tell me why you disagree with my POV rather than bring some totally irrelevant quote from three years ago, into a thread it has no business being in. I'm not the only person that this has been done to because many already knew who I was referring to, at the start of this paragraph, based on past and recent behavior. Yet they constantly get away with it. He's did this last week to not only myself, but to other people in the same thread! 

Or how about people who intentionally misrepresent a point of view or the meaning of a word and are completely disingenuous with what they post, even after they get called out for doing so.  They do this to get people riled up. Not because they want honest conversation. They throw up a wall of word salad when called out and further misrepresent everything they've said. This gets overlooked on a constant basis. What good is having a rule about the Prime Directive if people who knowingly skirt the rule, aren't going to be held accountable?

These examples are not rarities. They are common occurrences and knowing it's the same offenders over and over again who get away with shit, is probably the primary reason why people don't bother reporting at all.  I know for me, it's the reason why I didn't report having something I said three years ago, brought back up, get misrepresented and used against me in a recent thread. Seriously, what's the point of reporting, if the person won't ever be held accountable for what they do or if the decision was subjectively based on the opinions of others?  Do something about those kinds of people and you might find that threads and discussions improve greatly.

Having another sub-forum where people are expected to conduct themselves like adults isn't going to work. You're asking too much because everyone has different definitions of what they find acceptably "civil". For example, if I feel like I'm being put on the defensive because someone has intentionally misrepresented something I've said, you're damn right I'm going to call them out on it and I have the right to use any word that makes me feel better, including expletives some might find offensive. If people don't want to be offended, they should behave better. If other people find that I wasn't being civil, perhaps they should point the finger at the antagonist that started it and ask themselves how they would have handled things.

[John V]

How about this for a guideline: Suppose you're writing a letter of application for a job or a school. Only use such language in the new forum.

That should be objective enough for the mods to enforce without lengthy discussions.

Now, replace "you're" with "a reasonable/typical person is" before a couple of people post about their friend who wrote "fuck" on a job application.

We're all capable of civil language. We use it when necessary, such as a school application.

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See, I don't believe that though. I think if someone was having a discussion with friends/family at the dinner table, or in a classroom setting with their peers, they would know pretttty well how to stay civil...

This place isn't your family's dinner table. I'd bet money that none of them mention atheism. My take is that you are attempting to make this place a "more civil" place to promulgate your beliefs here. You might as well give it up now. Have you had any success in "bringing another into the fold" here? You are just going to have to accept that there are places on the internet that don't live up to your expectations. Which, of course, leads me to the question of why you even post here. You seem like a nice person. You aren't going to control the people here, end of story.

Note again that this suggestion was made in response to an atheist's desire for more serious discussions with theists.

[Joods]

We would love to have more serious discussions with theists but as soon as we ask you guys to back up your claims and opinions with actual, verifiable proof, the gloves come off and many times, the theist is the first to fly out of the box with a personal insult. We merely respond in kind to the way we have been treated. If you guys are trying to set an example of how your god works for you in your life, you're setting the wrong example.

For people who call themselves Christians or who brag that they are "Christ-like", some of you have problems acting like the Christians you're supposed to be. I will defend myself against people who seek to engage in childish behavior. Specifically those who like to drag up posts with no relevance to the discussion at hand with the clear intent of doing harm. There's no excuse for any of that if certain people are saying how much they believe in the bible and all.

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And for what it's worth - I have already owned up to my share of the shit-flinging in a previous post. I find it very ironic that some of the theists on this forum can't seem to do the same even though they are just as guilty.

[Edwardo Piet]

I really want this subforum to happen. Just remove people who use insults or swear words.

(I just wanna prove that I can do it )

And a color code for the subforum would totally work.

[brewer]

JFC, reading all of this makes me feel like I'm in Junior High again.

[John V]

We would love to have more serious discussions with theists but as soon as we ask you guys to back up your claims and opinions with actual, verifiable proof, the gloves come off and many times, the theist is the first to fly out of the box with a personal insult.

Then you should be in favor of the new forum.

[johan]

See, I don't believe that though. I think if someone was having a discussion with friends/family at the dinner table, or in a classroom setting with their peers, they would know pretttty well how to stay civil...

Have you ever managed groups of people with little to no higher education? I've got employees who will talk to the woman we have handling health coverage. A women they know to be a devout christian who does not swear and does not like to hear others swear. And they still couldn't get through a sentence without the word fuck in it if you put a gun to their head. You think everyone just knows. Trust me there are those that don't.  And speaking of higher education...

....I think overall, a good way to put it is this: imagine you are a college student in class and there is a classroom discussion going on, started by the professor, about a serious/controversial topic. Don't say anything on the thread that you wouldn't say in the classroom setting to your classmates and professor.

I get where you're trying to go with this example but to be fair, college professors have been known to use a four letter word or two. I'm just sayin'. College professors have also been known to belittle or otherwise verbally bitch slap students in the course of open discussions.

I also notice you're still hanging on to the dickwad thing so I will ask you again. If I'm having a discussion with someone I know to be atheist and I say I think what they're saying makes them sound like a christian, have I just called them a christian?