Rational Theism

[Foxaèr]

If an theist is truly rational, how can he regard what gets him to heaven as being harmful?

The part of being a theist doesn't rationalize the thoughts of others.

Or did you misquote?

Did you mean theist or did you mean atheist?

[Anomalocaris]

If an theist is truly rational, how can he regard what gets him to heaven as being harmful?

The part of being a theist doesn't rationalize the thoughts of others.

Or did you misquote?

Did you mean theist or did you mean atheist?

No, I meant theist.   A theist ought not to regard killing himself as self harm if he believes by dying he transitions to a better state.  Harm would be a transition to a worse state.  No?

[vorlon13]

I'm not getting the topic. Even now we have theists who when looking at Scriptures like these:

Matthew 27 (KJV)
32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

John 19 (KJV)
17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

and they assert nothing is amiss. Jesus simultaneously had help bearing His cross and also had no help at all bearing His cross, and they'll insist their interpretation is entirely logical and rational.

[Foxaèr]

I'm not getting the topic. Even now we have theists who when looking at Scriptures like these:

Matthew 27 (KJV)
32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

John 19 (KJV)
17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

and they assert nothing is amiss. Jesus simultaneously had help bearing His cross and also had no help at all bearing His cross, and they'll insist their interpretation is entirely logical and rational.

Your bum looks less and less appealing every time you post.

[The Grand Nudger]

Why would rational theism be informed by magic book at all?  If that's what jumps out..when trying to determine how theism could be rational, then we might find it useful to remind ourselves that magic book's problems are magic books problem.  Not gods problem.

The god of classical theism so beloved by believing rationalizers..... was a pagan god, after all.

Because those who accept biblical theism as real do not accept fictional writings as real.  

Umm, I think you're confusing classical with modern.

Not at all.  The god of classical theism was first described by greek pagans..and it seemed credible enough for an attempt at syncretism by none other than Saint Tommy of A.  I may have misunderstood the question..though, are we looking for rational theists/theism or rational bible believing christians/christianity?

The task, sofar as presenting rational theism is concerned...is establishing a justification for the belief that some god may exist, and that it may intervene in human affairs. Not that christianity is true.

[ignoramus]

This thread is a charlie foxtrot! Thanks Kit.

Have you seen the movie Brazil! This thread is that!

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Why would rational theism be informed by magic book at all?  If that's what jumps out..when trying to determine how theism could be rational, then we might find it useful to remind ourselves that magic book's problems are magic books problem.  Not gods problem.

The god of classical theism so beloved by believing rationalizers..... was a pagan god, after all.

Why do people believe in gods in the first place?  In ancient times people needed comfort when they experienced disasters.  And since their lives were so crappy they hoped for a better day, even if it was after they died.  So they came up with the idea of souls, which is pretty much universal around the world.  Once they got the soul thing working which let them enjoy eternal life in some kind of heaven or happy hunting ground it was easy for the con men to take charge and create all sorts of gods who would give the people eternal life but only if they did what the con men said.  Moses worked that con like a master.

Today people are stuck with those ancient gods, like Yahweh, Yeshua, Allah.  People can't dump them and replace them in their religion so they have to go with the bad versions that ancient con men cooked up.  

The prime reason the average person needs a deity is because only an all-powerful deity can give the person eternal life.  In order to get the reward the person has to follow the rules, whatever they are.  Otherwise the deity will inflict eternal punishment on the sinner.  It's an universal model.  

Atheists generally reject the idea of gods.  So that involves rejecting the idea of eternal life and eternal punishment.  When you're dead you're done.  But as you look into your future what kind of a funeral do you want?  Even if you plan to jump into an oven and have your ashes dumped in a forest it's still hard to eliminate all traces of religion from the process.

[The Grand Nudger]

That some people are wishful thinkers and cons exist to exploit them is true.  A rational theist would have absolutely no reason to disagree with that statement.

A rational theist doesn't have to believe in gods rules, heaven, hell...souls, or any variant of the abrahamic god....a single example among thousands, maybe even billions, accounting for variation between individuals in theological peer groups. All of which can be asserted to be completely fatuous by any rational believer.