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RE: Questions for "Our Role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums"
May 17, 2018 at 11:51 am
I;m surprised we haven;t seen a soul building theodicy rear it;s head, yet. It wouldn;t fare any better in discussion.......but it;s a hell of an improvement from pretending that we didn;t say what we said, or that we don;t believe what we believe.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Questions for "Our Role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums"
May 17, 2018 at 11:52 am
(May 17, 2018 at 11:45 am)Khemikal Wrote: -Complains that people misrepresent her, immediately proceeds to babble about solitary confinement.
Lol yeah that's a total strawman of lack of free will.
I don't think she is doing it on purpose though. You really do misrepresent people a lot, you do it to me all the time, I can't see that being done to her by either of us right now though. All Christians must think that God allows it for a good reason. And she did say that there will be a net good in the long run. How is it misrepresenting her to literally say the same thing she said back to her? Even what you said about the golden ticket is only different in its connotation. You're basically describing the same idea: The golden ticket is heaven or whatever happens in the supernatural realm after we die. And CL was saying that whatever happens in this natural world must be worth it in the long run. God could intervene but he chooses not to. All three of us agree that child rape is wrong but me and you don't think that allowing such a 'choice' is at all worth it. And can't God allow such things to be chosen but still intervene to prevent them happening? Does a medic or a policeman interfere with someone's free will by helping people? No. And medics and police officers and doctors and firemen wouldn't even be required if God intervened to prevent the awful and horrible suffering in the world. It's clear that God either doesn't exist, doesn't care or he is sadistic.
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RE: Questions for "Our Role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums"
May 17, 2018 at 11:54 am
(This post was last modified: May 17, 2018 at 11:54 am by The Grand Nudger.)
I understanmd that I have a way of framing the uglier or sillier parts of something that people say in a way that makes them reel against it. That;s not unintentional, not even a little bit.
In any case the solitary confinement dodge is pointless. We try to prevent child rape, and we don;t do so by placing everyone in solitary. It;s idiotic on it;s face and it;s own grounds. Unless god is far less competent than we are, and that's the only solution -he- can think of.....I have no idea why anyone would utter the first word of it.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Questions for "Our Role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums"
May 17, 2018 at 11:55 am
(May 17, 2018 at 11:45 am)Hammy Wrote: (1) God could choose intervene to stop innocent children and animals being harmed by people at any time. Yes or no?
Yes. And those choices to intervene have consequences. Do you know all of them?
(May 17, 2018 at 11:45 am)Hammy Wrote: (2) God chooses not to intervene because he has a plan that makes not intervening during such things worth it in the long run because there will be an overall 'net good'. Yes or no?
No. The choices of human beings thwart God's plan. God transforms our choices to achieve the best possible outcome.
<insert profound quote here>
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RE: Questions for "Our Role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums"
May 17, 2018 at 11:55 am
(This post was last modified: May 17, 2018 at 11:56 am by Edwardo Piet.)
(May 17, 2018 at 11:44 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Again, this is not a logical problem. That has been demonstrated time and time again. Objecting to the existence of God based on theodicy is, and always will be, an argument from incredulity. It requires the person making the objection to prove that God could not have had good reasons for allowing evils as opposed to the idea that this is the best of all possible worlds.
Wrong. A possible world without evil can be described. If God was morally perfect he would choose that one.
Quote: No Christian is surprised by terrible diseases, horrific catastrophes, or heinous acts of violence and depravity. Skeptics citing extreme examples, like child abuse or flesh eating bacteria, only confirms in my mind how desperately in need of a Savior we are and our duty to serve as the Body of Christ in this world. You can choose to believe what you want but don't fool yourself into believing it is a rational choice.
No one 'chooses to believe what they want'. You're unconvinced by my objections to the very notion of a supposedly perfectly good God choosing a world with lots of evil in it. That's not you 'choosing' to not believe me. It's you failing to grasp the concept.
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RE: Questions for "Our Role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums"
May 17, 2018 at 11:56 am
(May 17, 2018 at 11:55 am)Hammy Wrote: A possible world without evil can be described. If God was morally perfect he would choose that one. Yet another thing god is incapable of doing. : shrugs :
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Questions for "Our Role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums"
May 17, 2018 at 11:57 am
(May 17, 2018 at 11:56 am)Khemikal Wrote: (May 17, 2018 at 11:55 am)Hammy Wrote: A possible world without evil can be described. If God was morally perfect he would choose that one. Yet another thing god is incapable of doing. : shrugs :
Well he's supposedly all powerful. Hence my point that the fact he doesn't choose it means he doesn't care about suffering or he enjoys watching it.
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RE: Questions for "Our Role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums"
May 17, 2018 at 11:59 am
Right...but, I don;t know why anyone (theist or atheist) gets hung up on the caprice, inability, or inactivity of the divine. None of those things have ever been far from the traditions of believers.
God is what it is, if it is. If what it is includes raping kids then that;s the end of it. That these lowly human grubs are uncomfortable with that is their problem, not gods.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Questions for "Our Role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums"
May 17, 2018 at 12:00 pm
(May 17, 2018 at 11:42 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (May 17, 2018 at 11:34 am)Hammy Wrote: No not at all but there are definitely worse things in the world. Child rape being one of them.
And of course with or without free will we don't need to limit anyone's physical freedom. The idea that because of the ability to do otherwise that God wouldn't be doing a good thing if he intervened to prevent cruelty to children and animals is absurd. Would it not be a supremely good action on his part to prevent all such things from happening? Is it not a supremely evil action on his part to sit back and allow such things to happen all over the world when he is perfectly capable of preventing it at any time in an instant?
So if us all being born into solitary confinement would prevent child rape 100%, why don't you think being born into solitary confinement would be a better option? Are you saying you support child rape because you don't support us all being imprisoned in such a way that would prevent It?
^can you answer this ham? It may help you understand my position better, if you are genuinely trying to understand it.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Questions for "Our Role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums"
May 17, 2018 at 12:01 pm
(May 17, 2018 at 11:59 am)Khemikal Wrote: God is what it is, if it is. If what it is includes raping kids then that;s the end of it. That these lowly human grubs are uncomfortable with that is their problem, not gods.
The point is that God appears to be morally inferior even to us apes.
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