Is there free will in heaven?

[salty]

I guess I need example. Really, from what I've read there's a huge attack on my intelligence instead of a counter argument. If there's no attack on intelligence it's an attack on my personal character. Also, "you made that up" or "your Bible isn't true" isn't acceptable as a counter argument.

I'm just trying to get people to a place where they're not running after me personally, but are instead exciting about pursuing the topic.

So I've been lurking in a lot of threads, and there are some people who call you an idiot or the like - or more amusingly when Eld calls you a bigot - but you know what? From the beginning there were plenty of us who tried to address everything you said with logic and reason. And when you didn't like the answer, you claimed we were insulting you.

Guess what? I actually defended you in private and requested to people who aren't likely to show any kindness that they give you a little leeway to see if you were actually interested in learning. I have to be honest and say I've become almost sorry I did.

Wow. Very kind. I'm sorry you feel you needed to take it back. I'm standing up for myself Summer I didn't realize anyone was standing with me. I appreciate it, and I'm sorry if I've disappointed you, but I won't be bullied by people with the ability to communicate openly and clearly with me.

[thesummerqueen]

Really? I see people addressing all the points of her arguments. I see little "trashing".

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[frankiej]

In the homosexuality thread I did not state any new information about the body, instead I held the information as my opinion for why the behavior was not correct.

Just because you think someone is stupid doesn't mean you need to treat them that way. If I didn't take my own advice I would have refused to answer you a long time ago, but here I am, responding, because people should be treated fairly, stupid or otherwise.

I can only speak for myself, but in that case, I was throwing insults out because I found your views to be sickening.

[lucent]

And ignoring the insults and concentrating on the argument they did or didn't give back is too much to ask?

You're in our sandbox now. I asked this place to not be so hostile. I also asked theists to grow a thicker skin.

It's entirely possible to have intellectually rewarding conversations about God free from acrimony. I know, because I've had them. There are thoughtful atheists out there who are willing to engage and have a reasoned debate that actually gets farther than "god is a fairytale and youre a moron". I don't know particularly what is poisoning the atmosphere here, but from I have gathered it is a selective enforcement of the rules. The reasoning I have heard is..theists mistreat atheists in their forums, therefore, we get to mistreat theists here. Well, even if that were universally true, which I know it isn't, it certainly doesn't speak to the claim that atheism is in any wise superior to theism. Rather, it shows it is petty and vindictive.

Oh dear ...childish hissy fit... Eh luce?

I doubt very much that you have had any intellectual debates or discussions ever , if what you have posted to date is any guide.

Thing is my dear is that you have not put forward anything worthy of discussion to date. You have taken the moral high ground in all your statements and then have cried wolf when someone challenges you; as you are doing now.

Actually what I am doing is challenging the obviously false assertion that salty is bringing this upon herself, which is the favorite excuse for atheists on this board to treat theists like trash. You wouldn't recognize civil discourse if it bit you on the behind

[salty]

And where it gets personal is that even atheists get caught up in their own particular delusions. Salty keeps playing the victim, and I'm sorry, but that irritates me.

I've had Shell rip me a new one (or it felt like it) time and again - I don't get bent out of shape about it. I go back and fix what's wrong.

You're right. I do seem to have to bring this up quite often. It's only because I'm running into the problem time and again. It probably is irritating, but I'm still going to stand up for myself. I'm still going to ask for people to make a point and not make me the point.

[ElDinero]

A person need only go back to your restricted examples of drunkness and sex to see that you have little understanding of what freewill means and a weak basis for how it is used.

In the homosexuality thread I did not state any new information about the body, instead I held the information as my opinion for why the behavior was not correct.

How does that in any way contradict what I was saying? I was giving you examples of when people argued your point rather than calling you names. For fuck's sake, if you can't keep up with your own arguments, no wonder we're having communication issues. You said you needed examples of people arguing against your ideas, I gave them to you. Your weird attempt to change the subject makes no sense. I even asked you the question 'Was that people attacking you or your argument?' to help you along, and you still managed to lose track.

Explain how I have little understanding of free will. How can you possibly argue the point that if you are required to act within already set out parameters, that this is not free will? That is EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS.

Believe me, you have been, and are being treated fairly. You just managed to lose your own train of thought between two posts. I don't think using finger puppets to explain things to you would be unfair in the least.

[KichigaiNeko]

And where it gets personal is that even atheists get caught up in their own particular delusions. Salty keeps playing the victim, and I'm sorry, but that irritates me.

I've had Shell rip me a new one (or it felt like it) time and again - I don't get bent out of shape about it. I go back and fix what's wrong.

You're right. I do seem to have to bring this up quite often. It's only because I'm running into the problem time and again. It probably is irritating, but I'm still going to stand up for myself. I'm still going to ask for people to make a point and not make me the point.

This is very foolish and emotionally infantile of you salty. No one has attacked YOU personally so we are all at a loss as to your POV. We come across this time and time and time again with xtians. Suffice to say it could be postulated that xtians are xtians because they have the emotional capacity of an 8 year old. (No matter what their chronological age is)

[salty]

And I think falling prey to them shows you can't handle being an adult.

If I got pissed every time Eld called me an idiot about something, especially personally, I'd spend my life in such a state I'd kill myself.

It's called growing up and getting over it.

---

A person need only go back to your restricted examples of drunkness and sex to see that you have little understanding of what freewill means and a weak basis for how it is used.

Explain please?

http://atheistforums.org/thread-5497-page-11.html (post #105)
http://atheistforums.org/thread-5497-page-12.html (post #114)
http://atheistforums.org/thread-5497-page-18.html (post #179)

All he is concerned about is if he can get down, what I'm trying to clarify is that heaven will not be established on those terms.

lucent already made it clear what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to have a reasonable argument.

---

And ignoring the insults and concentrating on the argument they did or didn't give back is too much to ask?

You're in our sandbox now. I asked this place to not be so hostile. I also asked theists to grow a thicker skin.

It's entirely possible to have intellectually rewarding conversations about God free from acrimony. I know, because I've had them. There are thoughtful atheists out there who are willing to engage and have a reasoned debate that actually gets farther than "god is a fairytale and youre a moron". I don't know particularly what is poisoning the atmosphere here, but from I have gathered it is a selective enforcement of the rules. The reasoning I have heard is..theists mistreat atheists in their forums, therefore, we get to mistreat theists here. Well, even if that were universally true, which I know it isn't, it certainly doesn't speak to the claim that atheism is in any wise superior to theism. Rather, it shows it is petty and vindictive.

Oh dear ...childish hissy fit... Eh luce?

I doubt very much that you have had any intellectual debates or discussions ever , if what you have posted to date is any guide.

Thing is my dear is that you have not put forward anything worthy of discussion to date. You have taken the moral high ground in all your statements and then have cried wolf when someone challenges you; as you are doing now.

You missed the whole point. He's trying to explain that all parties in a discussion are worthy of respectful listening, it doesn't mean you need to agree, but to listen and the person that can respond without needing to put someone down is the true listener and the conversations can go farther and be deeper.

[fr0d0]

I find it amusing that you as atheists can't see your hypocracy here. Yes we know this is an atheist forum and what goes here is atheist asshattery is overlooked and then called "reasonable discourse". I think y'all need to take a look in the mirror sometimes.

[salty]

And we've had intellectually rewarding conversations on this board. And most of these threads start out this way. And most people stay that way.

And proclaiming that god is a fairytale and proceeding to explain why, as many have, is hardly insulting. The moron thing... I'd take that on a case by case basis.

Well, in my case, I just pass it over, I don't care how people evaluate my intelligence. But in this case, everyone is trying to claim this is just salty, when it clearly isn't..salty is an extremely nice person and she just honestly wants to have a decent conversation..but everyone thinks it is more fun to trash her..

Only another xtian would think that luce...you guys really are perverted

omae wa zenzen hidoi desu.