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RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 27, 2011 at 12:38 pm
Lucent, this is preaching. Knock it off.
Quote:I understand that in your rebellious state, worshipping God is the furtherest thing from your mind. All I will say to you is that you already love God, but you transfer that love onto His creation. You ascribe its wonder and beauty and mystery to blind processes and fate. You have no one to praise for it, no one to thank for your life. So, you give yourself the glory. That's what atheism is all about..transferring the glory due to God to yourself. The deists give the glory to nature. But God is even more wonderful than His creation, and is worthy of all praise.
No one is asking you to determine how they feel or think.
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RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 27, 2011 at 12:52 pm
Lucent's so full of glory he can't even control it. It's gushing out of every orifice.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 28, 2011 at 5:11 am
(October 27, 2011 at 12:52 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Lucent's so full of glory he can't even control it. It's gushing out of every orifice.
Funny how glory looks just like bullshit.
And a word of advice for Lucent, if you're going to make grandiose statements, don't run crying when they are turned against you.
There's a good lad. 
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If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 28, 2011 at 5:51 am
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2011 at 5:52 am by lucent.)
(October 28, 2011 at 5:11 am)Zen Badger Wrote: (October 27, 2011 at 12:52 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Lucent's so full of glory he can't even control it. It's gushing out of every orifice.
Funny how glory looks just like bullshit.
And a word of advice for Lucent, if you're going to make grandiose statements, don't run crying when they are turned against you.
There's a good lad.
Badger, I didn't run away, I've only just now come back to this thread. Don't get all puffed up because I'm not going anywhere.
I'm not sure what you're not understanding. Let's put it this way..God upholds the Universe. We wouldn't have our next breath without Him..likewise, a soul will not depart from the body unless God calls it forth. So, the time of death is up to Him. People don't die "accidently", they die because God allowed it to happen, and that because of free will. If a sin is behind it, it is not Gods will that it should happen, but because of free will, it is Gods will that it does happen. It's a subtle distinction which is perhaps going over your head.
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RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 28, 2011 at 5:57 am
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2011 at 6:01 am by thesummerqueen.)
So I suppose the people jumping out of the towers on 9/11 all died because god wanted that to happen. It wasn't some Muslim fuck nuts. It was all god. Damn is that SO fucking comforting!
Oh, and then there was the systematic extermination of my people. God allowed that.
Oh, and all the people who die miserable deaths in camps in Asia or in Africa
When I read on the news that a woman was savagely raped and eviscerated by a maniac, I can think "It's okay - god allowed that"
Shall I go on?
I'm not arguing the free will point, but I take objection to the idea of a caring God who "allows" shit to happen.
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RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 28, 2011 at 6:06 am
(October 28, 2011 at 5:51 am)lucent Wrote: (October 28, 2011 at 5:11 am)Zen Badger Wrote: (October 27, 2011 at 12:52 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Lucent's so full of glory he can't even control it. It's gushing out of every orifice.
Funny how glory looks just like bullshit.
And a word of advice for Lucent, if you're going to make grandiose statements, don't run crying when they are turned against you.
There's a good lad.
Badger, I didn't run away, I've only just now come back to this thread. Don't get all puffed up because I'm not going anywhere.
I'm not sure what you're not understanding. Let's put it this way..God upholds the Universe. We wouldn't have our next breath without Him..likewise, a soul will not depart from the body unless God calls it forth. So, the time of death is up to Him. People don't die "accidently", they die because God allowed it to happen, and that because of free will. If a sin is behind it, it is not Gods will that it should happen, but because of free will, it is Gods will that it does happen. It's a subtle distinction which is perhaps going over your head.
So you're saying that abortions are gods work then?
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 28, 2011 at 6:11 am
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2011 at 6:19 am by lucent.)
(October 28, 2011 at 5:57 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: So I suppose the people jumping out of the towers on 9/11 all died because god wanted that to happen. It wasn't some Muslim fuck nuts. It was all god. Damn is that SO fucking comforting!
Oh, and then there was the systematic extermination of my people. God allowed that.
Oh, and all the people who die miserable deaths in camps in Asia or in Africa
When I read on the news that a woman was savagely raped and eviscerated by a maniac, I can think "It's okay - god allowed that"
Shall I go on?
I'm not arguing the free will point, but I take objection to the idea of a caring God who "allows" shit to happen.
He also allows your ice cream to fall off its cone, and let you miss that bus. You can find 100 emotional reasons why this bothers you that God is ultimately in control, but this is an idea that is universally applied. He brings the rain that waters for the Harvest, He sends the bird song in through your window. God is orchaestrating everything on some fundemental level, because He is the agency behind all of the mechanisms.
(October 28, 2011 at 6:06 am)Zen Badger Wrote: (October 28, 2011 at 5:51 am)lucent Wrote: (October 28, 2011 at 5:11 am)Zen Badger Wrote: (October 27, 2011 at 12:52 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Lucent's so full of glory he can't even control it. It's gushing out of every orifice.
Funny how glory looks just like bullshit.
And a word of advice for Lucent, if you're going to make grandiose statements, don't run crying when they are turned against you.
There's a good lad.
Badger, I didn't run away, I've only just now come back to this thread. Don't get all puffed up because I'm not going anywhere.
I'm not sure what you're not understanding. Let's put it this way..God upholds the Universe. We wouldn't have our next breath without Him..likewise, a soul will not depart from the body unless God calls it forth. So, the time of death is up to Him. People don't die "accidently", they die because God allowed it to happen, and that because of free will. If a sin is behind it, it is not Gods will that it should happen, but because of free will, it is Gods will that it does happen. It's a subtle distinction which is perhaps going over your head.
So you're saying that abortions are gods work then?
I'm saying the Universe is Gods work, and the things that happen in it are permitted by Him to happen because He is ultimately in control. Abortions are not Gods work, neither are murders, or rapes, or lies, or theft..they are actions that His creatures carry out because they have free will to go against the wishes of God and carry out sin.
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RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 28, 2011 at 6:21 am
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2011 at 6:26 am by Zen Badger.)
(October 28, 2011 at 6:11 am)lucent Wrote: He also allows your ice cream to fall off its cone, and let you miss that bus. You can find 100 emotional reasons why this bothers you that God is ultimately in control, but this is an idea that is universally applied. He brings the rain that waters for the Harvest, He sends the bird song in through your window. God is orchaestrating everything on some fundemental level, because He is the agency behind all of the mechanisms. Yep, he's the one that created the parasitic worm that lives in your eyes. He's the one that causes young children in Africa to be raped and catch AIDS. He's the one that sent the earthquake to destroy Haiti and Japan.....
And all for the greater glory of gods ego 
Oh... and don't forget abortions, they're also gods work apparently.
(October 28, 2011 at 6:11 am)lucent Wrote: I'm saying the Universe is Gods work, and the things that happen in it are permitted by Him to happen because He is ultimately in control. Abortions are not Gods work, neither are murders, or rapes, or lies, or theft..they are actions that His creatures carry out because they have free will to go against the wishes of God and carry out sin.
But earlier you said that no one dies until god decides they should.
So he picks the moment of their death.
So which is it to be???
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 28, 2011 at 6:27 am
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2011 at 6:39 am by lucent.)
(October 28, 2011 at 6:21 am)Zen Badger Wrote: (October 28, 2011 at 6:11 am)lucent Wrote: He also allows your ice cream to fall off its cone, and let you miss that bus. You can find 100 emotional reasons why this bothers you that God is ultimately in control, but this is an idea that is universally applied. He brings the rain that waters for the Harvest, He sends the bird song in through your window. God is orchaestrating everything on some fundemental level, because He is the agency behind all of the mechanisms. Yep, he's the one that created the parasitic worm that lives in your eyes. He's the one that causes young children in Africa to be raped and catch AIDS. He's the one that sent the earthquake to destroy Haiti and Japan.....
And all for the greater glory of gods ego
Oh... and don't forget abortions, they're also gods work apparently.
Abortions are not Gods work. If you don't want to engage and instead are only interested in making your little statements, that's up to you. Abortions are mans work, which God allows because of free will.
(October 28, 2011 at 6:21 am)Zen Badger Wrote: (October 28, 2011 at 6:11 am)lucent Wrote: He also allows your ice cream to fall off its cone, and let you miss that bus. You can find 100 emotional reasons why this bothers you that God is ultimately in control, but this is an idea that is universally applied. He brings the rain that waters for the Harvest, He sends the bird song in through your window. God is orchaestrating everything on some fundemental level, because He is the agency behind all of the mechanisms. Yep, he's the one that created the parasitic worm that lives in your eyes. He's the one that causes young children in Africa to be raped and catch AIDS. He's the one that sent the earthquake to destroy Haiti and Japan.....
And all for the greater glory of gods ego
Oh... and don't forget abortions, they're also gods work apparently.
(October 28, 2011 at 6:11 am)lucent Wrote: I'm saying the Universe is Gods work, and the things that happen in it are permitted by Him to happen because He is ultimately in control. Abortions are not Gods work, neither are murders, or rapes, or lies, or theft..they are actions that His creatures carry out because they have free will to go against the wishes of God and carry out sin.
But earlier you said that no one dies until god decides they should.
So he picks the moment of their death.
So which is it to be???
Let's put it this way. If someone goes to stab you, God could cause that knife to deflect off your chest. He could turn it into a banana. However, if He did that, free will would not exist. So nothing is happening outside His control, but He permits His creatures to act in ways that defy His authority.
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RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 28, 2011 at 6:45 am
(October 28, 2011 at 6:27 am)lucent Wrote: Let's put it this way. If someone goes to stab you, God could cause that knife to deflect off your chest. He could turn it into a banana. However, if He did that, free will would not exist. So nothing is happening outside His control, but He permits His creatures to act in ways that defy His authority.
So what you said earlier about no-one dying until god decides they should is not true then?
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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