College, degrees, and jobs, oh my!

[Tiberius]

Clearly, it's not helping either.

Um. That's just stupid.

You heard of some people that can't get jobs after getting college degrees. This absolutely happens. The reason? There are plenty of them, but chief among them are that people get BAs in Art History and English Literature and enter a saturated job market full of intellectuals that work until they die.

I got a BS in Computer Science last year and got three job offers before I even had the diploma in hand. No diploma? No job.

Same story here. Computer Science degree, got a job before I graduated.

I think debt basically rules out the benefits of a college education.

I'm 30, left university 7 years ago, will have paid off my college debt by next year.

[Joods]

Clearly, it's not helping either.

Um. That's just stupid.

You heard of some people that can't get jobs after getting college degrees. This absolutely happens. The reason? There are plenty of them, but chief among them are that people get BAs in Art History and English Literature and enter a saturated job market full of intellectuals that work until they die.

I got a BS in Computer Science last year and got three job offers before I even had the diploma in hand. No diploma? No job.

Yes, but you need to realize that you are employed in a field that's in high demand. So instead of lumping every single job category out there into one thing, understand that there are some fields where, even with a degree, it's difficult to get work. 

I went to school, graduated and obtained my state licensure to do what I do. Guess what... I haven't been able to find decent, meaningful and sustainable work in my area for a year. It's not worth the amount of money I would spend on gas each week, to go outside of my area for what I am trained to do. Unfortunately, the market in my area, is literally saturated with salons and day spas. And at this point, I don't have enough experience to get licensure in another state that's closer to me. So there goes 18 grand down the toilet. It also takes between 1 and 3 years to build up a solid book to the point that you are always busy. Everyone I've talked to around my area already has someone that does their hair, so the only people I would be able to depend on are walk-ins and sadly, in this career, that's not where you make your money.

Hairdressers don't typically work a 40 hour weeks. The vast majority work up to 30 hours a week, which is still considered part-time. Nearly all salons generally do not have to offer any sort of benefits to part time workers. Many stylists only make between 30 - 45% commission on services and about 5-7% on retail sales. 35% commission on $150 is roughly $53.00 for three hours of work or right around $17.00 an hour. The salon gets the rest of the money.

We depend heavily on tips, so when we do a haircolor job and it works out to be $150, we expect a 20% tip, which is the standard. What we get is a measly $10 on that instead of $30. Sometimes we don't get tips at all. How do people not realize that they need to tip their stylist? The last place I worked at only paid you commission if you hit your average hourly service rate of 18.50 per hour. Do you know how impossible that is to achieve when you literally are new to the field and you don't have a following?

What they paid me instead was minimum wage, or $7.25 per hour for 12 - 15 hours a week. I wasn't even getting any commission on my retail sales. At 15 hours per week, I was making $108.75 before they took out taxes. I can't pay my student loans with that, let alone support myself. And that's pretty much how it is for most of the salons in my area. I did a color job, and sold product and the clients total came to $95. I worked on her hair for two hours. I saw ZERO commission from that. Instead, I was paid a measly total of $14.50 for all my hard work and the store got the difference.

When you stop to consider the varied career fields, demographics, geography, earning potential, availability of a certain type of employment in a given area and other factors, the statistics can change drastically. Just because one has a degree doesn't mean work in that given field is going to be found.

---

Um. That's just stupid.

You heard of some people that can't get jobs after getting college degrees. This absolutely happens. The reason? There are plenty of them, but chief among them are that people get BAs in Art History and English Literature and enter a saturated job market full of intellectuals that work until they die.

I got a BS in Computer Science last year and got three job offers before I even had the diploma in hand. No diploma? No job.

Same story here. Computer Science degree, got a job before I graduated.

I think debt basically rules out the benefits of a college education.

I'm 30, left university 7 years ago, will have paid off my college debt by next year.

And you can afford to do that. Many people can't. Some couldn't afford to go to college until later, because they were busy trying to pay bills or put food on the table to feed their kids. Or some people didn't have great grades in high school, so they had to get a job right after graduation, which pushes away opportunities for college. Some can't even afford to go at all. And not everyone qualifies for student loans or government assistance or grants. 

I really wish people would understand certain life events dictate how the rest of one's life goes. Life is definitely easier when you don't have to worry about kids or things like paying a mortgage or day care expenses or deal with kids in school who get sick and need a parent to come and pick them up. Parent's generally live paycheck to paycheck and can't afford to lose a day's pay because the kid can't be left alone at home. There are so many different factors that people seem to overlook when they aren't in a situation where they have to struggle to make ends meet.

[The Grand Nudger]

Most college grads are working in fields/positions that do not require higher education...and a significant portion of those that are... aren;t working in the fields for which they were educated.  

I suppose it;s easy to say "get a degree in a high demand field" ofc everyone hears that too...and what will that look like in four years (if you can full time it, seven if you cant)?  I don;t know why anyone would spend that time and money for something they didn;t like -beyond- what money it might make them, if it makes them any.  Don;t get me wrong, I think everyone should at least go and see if it;s for them..but if bang for your buck is the deciding factor, professional certification is a better bet.

[Minimalist]

It's a major problem over here.

https://studentloanhero.com/student-loan...tatistics/

It’s 2018 and Americans are more burdened by student loan debt than ever. In fact, the average student loan debt for Class of 2017 graduates was $39,400*, up six percent from the previous year.

Teachers here in AZ have an average starting salary of just over $31,000.

Accounting for taxes, that works out to a take home pay of $1,050 twice a month or slightly over $24,000 per year.

They are quitting in droves.

[The Grand Nudger]

When I got out of the military I got a better job than any of my buddies who'd done the college thing first, and holding -that- job has been better for my employment prospects than their degrees have been.  I'm still 30 credits out.  My best bud has a bs in computer science..he -just- got a raise that put him on par with my salary from 11 years ago.  I;ve since left the job market entirely and at last call I kept getting a bunch of "you're over qualifieds" whereas he's still struggling to find anywhere else that would employ him.  About 7 years ago I -almost- took a job as his supervisor, because you don;t need a degree to boss around the tech guys....experience bossing people around will get you that job much, much more reliably.

In an economy full of grads looking for work (any work) it;s other things that get you the jobs you want. Not that a degree won;t help...but, if you know anybody who does corporate staffing or headhunting..ask em, and they'll tell you that having a degree isn;t what people think it is.

To echo Min, my mother has a masters in secondary ed with a focus on developmental difficulties. She drives a cab because she makes a hell of alot more money doing that. My aunt has MBA focusing on healthcare...she works as a community college admin assistant, like she always has. My grandfather was a nuclear engineer. He works at a bodyshop. My sister went to fire college after emt training.....she does data entry for the VA, lol. I;m the family's waste of intellectual potential...lol, the stoner who doesn;t have the discipline to finish what I started.....but they;re the underemployed unfortunates. My grandfather and my sister aren;t in debt, gi bill. My aunt got the job so that she didn;t have to go into debt, and my mother...bless her soul..has basically said fuck it and refuses to repay her impressively large student loan/credit line. My wife was on the hook for a degree in finance she never used (which is a shame, because what she really wanted to do was radio, lol). The student loans are only ever a portion of the debt that people go into when they devote to college fulltime.

Meh, do the math, I guess. If you absolutely have to have a specific degree to get a job you want and you know you'll get the job and you know it will be enough to cover your biulls with enogh leftover to crush the interest...then it;s a no brainer. Anything else, though, the decision isn;t as clear cut as college advertising disguised as income polling would suggest. In a perfect world I guess it would be, but we live in Murica!

[Aegon]

I just graduated last week. With a degree that is only in demand in one city.

[The Grand Nudger]

Theres another thing far more important than a degree, when trying to secure employment.  Being willing to go to where the employment is in an environment where gainful employment is migratory.  Even if you do have the degree, if you can;t or wont do that....then have fun being a service industry manager. 

Order Up!

Sideline, I sometimes wonder what sort of operation could be run off the intellectual labor of these boards...myself..seems like we have a diverse concentration of educated pros up in this piece- my dirty collectivism bubbling up to the surface, lol.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

You have to have willingness to adapt. My degrees have been in arts/law/humanities based subjects which prima facie have little career progression into mathematical/scientific fields. However I studied CIMA part time whilst working after leaving academia and now I work as an accountant.

My degrees aren’t necessarily ‘relevant’ but they’ve helped me get ahead of the curve quite quickly after looking to change career paths. And if I chose to change again (which I want to) then they’ll help once more.

[The Grand Nudger]

At the very least, I;d say that people who pursue degrees..if you drew a venn diagram, probably have alot of overlap with the group of people who would do good no matter what field they were in.  The rest just accumulates over time.  Certified for this, sent to that seminar.  Before you know it maybe you have to move across town rather than across the state or the country.

I keep telling my bro he might as well go to the community college, since no ones beating down my door trying to hire him..and he has little else to do. Maybe succeeding at the one will let him believe he could succeed at the other.

Plan on doing the same with my kids when the graduate high school. Tell em to pick one, a job, college, or the service...but that they have to pick one, lol.

[brewer]

You have to have willingness to adapt. My degrees have been in arts/law/humanities based subjects which prima facie have little career progression into mathematical/scientific fields. However I studied CIMA part time whilst working after leaving academia and now I work as an accountant.

My degrees aren’t necessarily ‘relevant’ but they’ve helped me get ahead of the curve quite quickly after looking to change career paths. And if I chose to change again (which I want to) then they’ll help once more.

No offense, but that triggered Python.