(May 25, 2018 at 9:40 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think everything will make sense to us someday, and we will understand why.In order for people to reach objective conclusions their must be a shared goal, in the case of humans it's well being. Murder is objectively bad for the well being of humans, so we are able to say that it is immoral. Notice you asked about "murder" and not "killing", that's because killing could be moral or immoral depending on the situation.
(May 25, 2018 at 9:07 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: So the answer to this is not an easy one. And my reason is philosophical (though hopefully it's clear by now I don't use big, obtuse words when I philosophize). Still, your question is a tall order, and I have broken into three questions. Please choose which of the three is the sticking point for you (or if more than one is, choose more than one).
1) Is anything right or wrong at all? (metaethics- I think this is what you really want to know.).
2) Why is murder wrong? (this is what you asked, but without me filling in #1, the answer to this may be dissatisfying).
3) Even assuming that it can be demonstrated that murder is wrong, why should I not murder someone if I can easily get away with it? ("If God is dead, everything is permitted"-Dostoevsky).
If I didn't believe in God and thought morality was subjective, I still wouldn't murder anyone because of the whole empathy thing.
My question is #2, but since you said you have to answer 1 for it, go ahead lol.
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| Poll: How do you account for psychopaths? This poll is closed. |
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| I don’t believe God is responsible for our morality | 4 | 50.00% | |
| I don’t accept that psychopaths really exist | 0 | 0% | |
| Psychopaths are choosing to ignore their innate sense of right and wrong | 0 | 0% | |
| God mistakenly misses out psychopaths when granting morality | 0 | 0% | |
| It’s the psychopath’s fault they have no empathy | 2 | 25.00% | |
| It’s because of “the fall” | 0 | 0% | |
| Other | 2 | 25.00% | |
| Total | 8 vote(s) | 100% | |
| * You voted for this item. | [Show Results] |
Thread Rating:
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Theists: how do you account for psychopaths?
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  (May 25, 2018 at 10:53 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote:Mr. Wizard! Nice to see you around again!(May 25, 2018 at 9:40 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think everything will make sense to us someday, and we will understand why.In order for people to reach objective conclusions their must be a shared goal, in the case of humans it's well being. Murder is objectively bad for the well being of humans, so we are able to say that it is immoral. Notice you asked about "murder" and not "killing", that's because killing could be moral or immoral depending on the situation.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken. (May 25, 2018 at 11:21 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:(May 25, 2018 at 10:53 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: In order for people to reach objective conclusions their must be a shared goal, in the case of humans it's well being. Murder is objectively bad for the well being of humans, so we are able to say that it is immoral. Notice you asked about "murder" and not "killing", that's because killing could be moral or immoral depending on the situation.Mr. Wizard! Nice to see you around again! I have been Lurking, but nothing like a good debate on morality to get me posting.  (May 25, 2018 at 11:27 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote:Hey mr wizard what's up(May 25, 2018 at 11:21 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Mr. Wizard! Nice to see you around again! 
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb  (May 25, 2018 at 10:53 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote:(May 25, 2018 at 9:40 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think everything will make sense to us someday, and we will understand why.In order for people to reach objective conclusions their must be a shared goal, in the case of humans it's well being. Murder is objectively bad for the well being of humans, so we are able to say that it is immoral. Notice you asked about "murder" and not "killing", that's because killing could be moral or immoral depending on the situation. It just depends. There are times when murdering someone can benefit someone else in some way. Which is why they murder in the first place.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh RE: Theists: how do you account for psychopaths?
May 25, 2018 at 11:58 pm
(This post was last modified: May 25, 2018 at 11:59 pm by Mr.wizard.)
(May 25, 2018 at 11:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(May 25, 2018 at 10:53 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: In order for people to reach objective conclusions their must be a shared goal, in the case of humans it's well being. Murder is objectively bad for the well being of humans, so we are able to say that it is immoral. Notice you asked about "murder" and not "killing", that's because killing could be moral or immoral depending on the situation. Yes sometimes a person can benefit from doing a bad thing, the fact that it benefits the one person doesn't make it moral. We are talking about murder being bad for the well being of humans, I assume we can agree that murder is detrimental to the well being of the human race. (May 25, 2018 at 11:41 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:(May 25, 2018 at 11:27 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: I have been Lurking, but nothing like a good debate on morality to get me posting.Hey mr wizard what's up Howdy Quote:It just depends. There are times when murdering someone can benefit someone else in some way. Which is why they murder in the first place.On a meta scale there is no real benefit . Murder is self defeating to any goal you may ultimately have
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb (May 25, 2018 at 11:58 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote:(May 25, 2018 at 11:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It just depends. There are times when murdering someone can benefit someone else in some way. Which is why they murder in the first place. Again, I'd say it depends. Killing off all the Indians certainly wasn't detrimental to the settlers.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh RE: Theists: how do you account for psychopaths?
May 26, 2018 at 12:15 am
(This post was last modified: May 26, 2018 at 12:19 am by The Grand Nudger.)
................................................well...we could have kept them from starving........................................but, wtf...really? WTF is wrong with you, and who did it to you?
-rhetorical, It was goddamned priest.
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(May 26, 2018 at 12:12 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(May 25, 2018 at 11:58 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: Yes sometimes a person can benefit from doing a bad thing, the fact that it benefits the one person doesn't make it moral. We are talking about murder being bad for the well being of humans, I assume we can agree that murder is detrimental to the well being of the human race. So you think that groups of people murdering each other and taking each others stuff maximizes well being? By the way Killing Indians and taking their land only led to war and more killing, it did not maximize well being for either side, eventually it had to be handled through treaty. |
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