What is your problem with Islam? Think about it

[Mister Agenda]

Does Allah forgive all who seek his forgiveness?

Yes.

That's a generous interpretation considering 'Allah pardons not that partners should be ascribed to him', 'those who believe, disbelieve, and believe again, Allah will not pardon them'. Awkward, considering you're supposed to 'despair not of the mercy of Allah, who forgives all sins'.

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Whether the person believes the ad hoc explanation has nothing to do with whether it's an ad hoc explanation.

Can you explain the fallacy, usually it's when both don't believe in the premise, but one is arguing by it for sake of argument.

Usually ad hoc makes an explanation he himself doesn't believe in to argue a point in a fantasy what if conversation just for the sake of argument.
Whether the person believes the ad hoc explanation has nothing to do with whether it's an ad hoc explanation.
Can you explain the fallacy, usually it's when both don't believe in the premise, but one is arguing by it for sake of argument. An Ad Hoc fallacy is when a person gives an explanation for an event and the explanation is written or said as an argument for the event. When a person poses an explanation that is disputed by evidence the person has to resort to untestable answers to salvage their claim.

What is the Ad Hoc fallacy? - Quora

Belief is irrelevant. A person can be completely sincere and make this fallacy. For example, someone who has not doubt that there are no errors in the Koran runs across something in the Koran that seems to be in error, It's a contradiction. But they know the Koran can't contain any contradictions because it's perfect. They're in cognitive dissonance. They resolve it by thinking of an explanation that would account for the contradiction. It makes sense to them, and they accept it. But it's still ad hoc.

[Mystic]

Ok fair enough.  I misunderstood Ad Hoc.

[Simon Moon]

Yes, those books are  equally as horrible as the Quran. Tu quo que fallacy much?

"Other religious texts are just as violent as mine! So there!".

How does that make your religious text good?

Here's the difference between modern Christianity and Judaism (for the most part) compared to Modern Islam, though. Modern Jews and Christians, with few notable exceptions, no longer carry out the horrible actions in their books. Muslims do

From a Pew study in 2013, 350 MILLION Muslims support violent Jihad. Even though the vast majority of Muslims do not, that is still a lot of extremists that can get ahold of weapons.


None of those reasons describe my position.

My dislike for Islam (and Judaism, Christianity and Hinduism) is that it is a horrible operating system to be running on human minds. It has so many bugs built in, that Muslims believe are features.

It is great that Christianity and Judaism have been dragged, kicking and screaming the entire way, into modernity. Islam, in many parts of the world, is still living in the 7th century.

What is the horrible part in the Quran? I want verses that are horrible to you.

Here you go.

Verse 9:111, Quran 9:5, Quran 9:29, Quran 65:4, Quran 33.50, Quran 4:34, Quran 22:19-22, Quran 8.12...

That's just a start.

And I don't care that you may have some apologetics ready to explain these (and the 100s of other barbaric Quran passages) away, but I don't really care. The fact is, that millions of Muslims take those passages literally, and those are the ones I care about.

The fact that you, or other Muslims, may have a more 'sophisticated' reading of those passages, that do not lead to abhorrent behavior, does not matter. Because there's enough Muslims, who read them literally, to threaten civilization.

[Mystic]

I don't think the issue is literal or non-literal but about taking these verses in context of other verses with a holistic understanding.

The spirit of battle and war - a Creator would not shy away talking about that. Although these verses were revealed in a specific context, no doubt, they have universal implications.

Of course making haste with a verse and understanding would be awful, and if someone follows evil and thinks Quran says to do that, when they have no proof, they are too be condemned, not a book that put everything it's place but people are too lazy to study it.

And Quran has plenty of proofs for God, and makes the best detailed version as well as the most short version of the moral argument, and there is many more proofs it offers.

[WinterHold]

Yes.

That's a generous interpretation considering 'Allah pardons not that partners should be ascribed to him', 'those who believe, disbelieve, and believe again, Allah will not pardon them'. Awkward, considering you're supposed to 'despair not of the mercy of Allah, who forgives all sins'.

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The two verses compliment each other. One is mentioning half the sentence; the other is mentioning the whole sentence.

[Mystic]

That's a generous interpretation considering 'Allah pardons not that partners should be ascribed to him', 'those who believe, disbelieve, and believe again, Allah will not pardon them'. Awkward, considering you're supposed to 'despair not of the mercy of Allah, who forgives all sins'.

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The two verses compliment each other. One is mentioning half the sentence; the other is mentioning the whole sentence.

Bro, they are butchering language and it's norms.

This generation doesn't know the proper basics of how language has been spoken. They are incredible dense people who think they know so much.

[WinterHold]

Simon Moon

What is the horrible part in the Quran? I want verses that are horrible to you.

Here you go.

Verse 9:111, Quran 9:5, Quran 9:29, Quran 65:4, Quran 33.50, Quran 4:34, Quran 22:19-22, Quran 8.12...

That's just a start.

Let's take them verse by verse:

Sura 9, The Quran:
( 111 )   Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they kill and are killed. [It is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.

It's a verse speaking about war. In combat; the dead believers are martyrs (just like the dead American soldiers to American people at that long memorial near the white house).

The cause of Allah is defined to be:

Sura 4, The Quran:
( 75 )   And what is [the matter] with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah and [for] the oppressed among men, women, and children who say, "Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppressive people and appoint for us from Yourself a protector and appoint for us from Yourself a helper?"

So, we are proud to be fighters for the oppressed among women, men and children. I'm not an American soldier fighting for a visa in the States or fighting for money.

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Sura 9, The Quran:
( 1 )   [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.
( 2 )   So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.
( 3 )   And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah. And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.
( 4 )   Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
( 5 )   And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

You didn't say that it's a war?
I mean modern countries use tactical bombers, and you're mad about this? and it's not even speaking about civilians; but soldiers in combat. You don't spare the enemy unless captured; right? You cherry picked a single verse from a tower of text about war; and used it to bash the book ?

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Sura 9, Verse 29 was answered in the post to the member "Fake Messiah".
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Sura 65, The Quran:
( 4 )   And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amenorrhea

Amenorrhoea is the absence of a menstrual period in a woman of reproductive age. Physiological states of amenorrhoea are seen, most commonly, during pregnancy and lactation (breastfeeding), the latter also forming the basis of a form of contraception known as the lactational amenorrhoea method. Outside the reproductive years, there is absence of menses during childhood and after menopause.

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Sura 33, The Quran:
( 50 )   O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

And what's the problem with this verse exactly?
Islam treats sex between men and women as a natural process discussed without problems; see this verse as an example:

Sura 7, The Quran:
( 189 )   It is He who created you from one soul and created from it its mate that he might dwell in security with her. And when he covers her, she carries a light burden and continues therein. And when it becomes heavy, they both invoke Allah, their Lord, "If You should give us a good [child], we will surely be among the grateful."

So what's the problem, exactly ?
It's not like sex is a taboo in Islam.

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Sura 4, The Quran
( 34 )   Men are in responsible of women by what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance advise them;and forsake them in bed; and, beat them. But if they obey you, seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

You never beat anybody unless they beat you first. There are wives who butcher their husbands and abuse them. So if a wife beats her husband he is allowed to do it.

Men are responsible because their bodies allow them to work and get cash to spend it on the girl. I thought that is the norm since the age of cave man.

A good wife guards the house of her husband; and never brings men to cheat on her husband in his absence.

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Sura 22, The Quran:

( 19 )   These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water
( 20 )   By which is melted that within their bellies and [their] skins.
( 21 )   And for [striking] them are maces of iron.

Yes. That is in hell though; that's why it's called "hell". But it is in the afterlife; so let's wait, die and see for ourselves.
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Sura 8, The Quran:
( 12 )   [Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."

It's a battle. Angels helped Muslim armies in the past during battles.

And I don't care that you may have some apologetics ready to explain these (and the 100s of other barbaric Quran passages) away, but I don't really care. The fact is, that millions of Muslims take those passages literally, and those are the ones I care about.

The fact that you, or other Muslims, may have a more 'sophisticated' reading of those passages, that do not lead to abhorrent behavior, does not matter. Because there's enough Muslims, who read them literally, to threaten civilization.

Oh; you don't care....sorry.

[Mystic]

Simon moon, regarding verse 4:34, it was the first verse in the edge verses thread. I gave it completely different translation than all translations out there, but believe it's the rational way to see it.

[yragnitup]

Yesterday a Muslim terorist attacked two female police in Belgium - from behind, of course, slashing their throats and stabbing them in a frenzy of religious ecstasy while shouting Allahu Akbar. Then he took their weapons and shot them repeatedly to make sure he had done Allah's work.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44289404

UK activist and English Defence Leage founder Tommy Robinson was arrested on Friday outside of Leeds Crown Court for reporting on a Muslim gang pedophile grooming trial. Within six hours of his arrest, Robinson was handed a 13 month prison term for violating a prior suspended sentence for a similar offense, while media outlets were banned from covering the incident by the court - with several removing reports which had already been published

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-2...-orwellian

With love from Londonistan, coming soon to USA!!!

[WinterHold]

Yesterday a Muslim terorist attacked two female police in Belgium -...

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from behind, of course, slashing their throats and stabbing them in a frenzy of religious ecstasy while shouting Allahu Akbar. Then he took their weapons and shot them repeatedly to make sure he had done Allah's work.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44289404

UK activist and English Defence Leage founder Tommy Robinson was arrested on Friday outside of Leeds Crown Court for reporting on a Muslim gang pedophile grooming trial. Within six hours of his arrest, Robinson was handed a 13 month prison term for violating a prior suspended sentence for a similar offense, while media outlets were banned from covering the incident by the court - with several removing reports which had already been published

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-2...-orwellian

With love from Londonistan, coming soon to USA!!!

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Rightist Europeans needs more obedient, good self haters with inferiority complex like you to prove their proganda. They should give you a free visa for standing against these crazy, violent Muzlimz.
The Muslim mayor of London says hi.

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https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/isl...76246.html

Only two groups in our society promote the “Quran teaches terrorism” myth: anti-Muslim pundits and Isis extremists. Both are wrong.

You share a lot with ISIS terrorists: both of you are full of shit, both of you are sucking European feet to get free visa in the west, both of you bring a bad name to Muslims in the outside, both of you believe in a very extreme and violent version of Islam, and both of you obviously haven't read single word of the Quran.