Stephen Colbert Rips Jeff Sessions a New Asshole

[Amarok]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/toddler-cage-photo/

If it's fake or not is irrelevant it's needlessly cruel regardless .And no saying they get amenities does not make it any less cruel .

[henryp]

None of this addresses the problem of separating families. Yes we have borders and yes we have detention centers, there is always room for improvement in these areas but I don't see any value in taking children from their parents, it just seems cruel especially since this administration has already admitted that they are using it as a deterrent. The only way that "making the citizenship process easier" fixes the problem, is if the administration is prepared to approve large numbers of immigrants. If most immigrants are being denied then they are probably going to try and sneak in anyway and given the rhetoric being spewed by the current administration I don't see them being more accepting.

The bolded is the problem.  You don't get to enter countries just because you want to.  

We can vote who we want into our government to change the border to be as open or closed as we want.  But that's up to the voters and government United States, not the people trying to immigrate into the US.  Whatever rules that are set are the rules.  

What the Trump Admin is proposing, I think, is if they are allowed to apply the same rules when they catch someone coming in illegally as they do at the border, then the family would be admitted or rejected as a group which solves the problem of splitting up families.  But a loophole allows illegals to get a trial or something, which takes awhile, and the US has to either let them into the country and hope they show back up for court on the honor system, or hold the adults.  But they can't hold the kids with the adults legally.  So they put them in the kid facilities.  It sounds like they try to place them with a family member already in the states, but I haven't read into it that far.

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There's plenty of money floating around in our government.  They can always scrape together a few billion if they need to tax cuts or no tax cuts.

I don't think you're living in the same reality that the rest of us are living in.  Is that how you balance your own finances, you just "find money"?

Oh come on now.  We both know personal finances and how the US Government is funded are nothing alike.  That's a disingenuous Tea Party argument.  Although, they are probably dumb enough to think it's a good point.

[Amarok]

We don't even take care of our homeless citizens and veterans.

Whataboutism 

  Why should we go all out to help foreigners who have nothing in common with us?  

Mexicains have nothing in common with us ? One wonders how i have managed a relationship with one for 8 years . One wonders how many foreigners you know in order to make that judgement.

If we wanted to help them we should overthrow their worthless leaders and run their countries for them. 

Good luck with that 

 That way they would get the advantage of living under the American government without having to come to America.

Good luck with that

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Boru

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/toddler-cage-photo/

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And this newer, more responsive system is going to be funded by giving massive tax breaks to corporations and the rich?

There's plenty of money floating around in our government.  They can always scrape together a few billion if they need to tax cuts or no tax cuts.

You seem to think the Snopes article discredits the notion that separating children from their parents is a bad thing.  Guess again.

Boru

[henryp]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/toddler-cage-photo/

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You seem to think the Snopes article discredits the notion that separating children from their parents is a bad thing.  Guess again.

Boru

I believe the meme said "Is this what we've become?  Are you trump fans really okay with this?" over a picture of a kid in a cage.  Not "separating children from their parents is a bad thing."  

Instead of owning you just got duped, you're going with "Well, what it was actually saying..."?  The meme is based on a lie.  They want stupid moms on facebook to think this is the crying child being "torn from it's parents arms" and kept in a cage.  Criticize the right for lying in one thread, spread this fake propaganda in another.  

And the worst part, is you're right.  Splitting up parents and kids is bad.  I'm not even arguing against that.  But you post some bullshit like this, and then defend it rather than going the 'oops' route, and now the conversation can be framed about the dishonest meme instead of the issue if that's what I was interested.

It's a silly move that gets used a lot in politics.  Hyperbole when it isn't necessary.  I'd be curious to see how effective that is, because I've always thought when you are undeniably right, don't put yourself in a position where people can correctly say you're wrong.  I thought that's a mistake a lot of people made running against Trump.

[RoadRunner79]

I was just seeing where house Majority Leader Ryan was really pushing a change in legislation to stop this, and handle the illegal immigrant situation better.

[Amarok]

Yeah that's not what Brian[b]SoddingBoru4 [/b]did but nice try 

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I was just seeing where house Majority Leader Ryan was really pushing a change in legislation to stop this, and handle the illegal immigrant situation better.

And he will cave to his boss because he doesn't have the balls he sold those to win an election .

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

You seem to think the Snopes article discredits the notion that separating children from their parents is a bad thing.  Guess again.

Boru

I believe the meme said "Is this what we've become?  Are you trump fans really okay with this?" over a picture of a kid in a cage.  Not "separating children from their parents is a bad thing."  

Instead of owning you just got duped, you're going with "Well, what it was actually saying..."?  The meme is based on a lie.  They want stupid moms on facebook to think this is the crying child being "torn from it's parents arms" and kept in a cage.  Criticize the right for lying in one thread, spread this fake propaganda in another.  

And the worst part, is you're right.  Splitting up parents and kids is bad.  I'm not even arguing against that.  But you post some bullshit like this, and then defend it rather than going the 'oops' route, and now the conversation can be framed about the dishonest meme instead of the issue if that's what I was interested.

It's a silly move that gets used a lot in politics.  Hyperbole when it isn't necessary.  I'd be curious to see how effective that is, because I've always thought when you are undeniably right, don't put yourself in a position where people can correctly say you're wrong.  I thought that's a mistake a lot of people made running against Trump.

Did you read the bit in the Snopes article about why the child in the pic was crying?  Because he could see him mum but he couldn't get to her.  This is precisely what the Trump policy (again - it is a policy, not a law) is doing - terrorizing little children and panicking their parents through forced separation.

But they can't hold the kids with the adults legally. 

Yes you can.

Boru

[Wyrd of Gawd]

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So, the problem with detention facilities, is there are legal limits to the length of time children can be kept in them.  And because the system is backlogged, in the Obama administration, they'd just release the family and give them a court date.  But then they would just head off into the US with no guarantee they'd come back.  Which is an opportunity they wouldn't get if they tried to enter legally at the border.  If they attempt legally, they either are admitted or turned away as a family.

To your point of legal border crossings resulting in families being split up, I've read that they are supposed to only do that if they feel the child is in danger, which makes sense.  I'm sure there are abuses, but that's not by design.

Sessions response, is to close the loophole by charging people with entering illegally, rather than just releasing everybody and hoping they come back to court.  It's a bad solution.  But the alternative is also bad.  But you don't have to enter the country illegally.  And as I said earlier, having borders is not a controversial position.  The answer is changing the laws to work better.  Ideally, to more quickly have people accepted/rejected as a family as they are when applying legally.  

https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/17443198/c...ed-parents

When the Obama administration attempted to respond to the “crisis” of families and unaccompanied children crossing the border in summer 2014, it  — a practice that had basically ended several years before. But federal courts stopped the administration from holding families for months without justifying the decision to keep them in detention. So most families ended up getting released while their cases were pending...

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None of this addresses the problem of separating families. Yes we have borders and yes we have detention centers, there is always room for improvement in these areas but I don't see any value in taking children from their parents, it just seems cruel especially since this administration has already admitted that they are using it as a deterrent. The only way that "making the citizenship process easier" fixes the problem, is if the administration is prepared to approve large numbers of immigrants. If most immigrants are being denied then they are probably going to try and sneak in anyway and given the rhetoric being spewed by the current administration I don't see them being more accepting.

One of the things Trump was supposed to be building was a series of concentration camps to hold all apprehended illegal aliens in.  Well, he's caught some illegal aliens and they are in concentration camps.  Why is that a concern?

[Mr.wizard]

[hide]

One of the things Trump was supposed to be building was a series of concentration camps to hold all apprehended illegal aliens in.  Well, he's caught some illegal aliens and they are in concentration camps.  Why is that a concern?

Well, first of all they are not concentration camps but i'm going to assume you meant detention centers. I never said there was a problem with detention centers, we have already had detention centers, the problem as I and many others have stated is the separating the child from the parents, it isn't necessary you could hold the family together in the detention center, that is what we have done in the past. Presidents in the past have avoided separating the families, specifically for humanitarian reasons, Trump administration have actually made it a matter of policy to separate the families. 

I don't know how many times this has to be repeated.