Obama, the Republican 5th Column?

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

If that's the question, count me among their number.

I don't approve of the band-aid that was slapped on the gushing wound that is our nation's broken health care system, whereupon our pseudo-liberal president declared it was "fixed" and then congratulated himself on the "historic accomplishment". The man must be double-jointed, the way he pats himself on the back so much.

Of course, my number would be added to a poll like this for conservatives to parade around. You have to look at the details of a poll. Of those "dissatisfied", you have to ask why. Too much or too little?

I can't disagree with this, but Conservatives take dissatisfaction with the healthcare bill to be the same as wanting no regulation of health insurance and pharmaceuticals and a complete repeal of the bill. Obama was right about one thing though, the one that was ultimately passed can be the skeleton of a much more comprehensive reform in the future, just as similar bills with medicaid and medicare have done in the past. As those systems were much smaller back in the day and have expanded greatly as time has marched on.

Still, I can't help but feel cheated that Obama is trying to compromise with a group of people utterly uninterested in compromise on top of an entire team of spineless and self-defeating senators and representatives in congress. It's a fool's errand.

Be that as it may, I feel no interest in removing something that was finally won despite no republican support that is altogether a good package.

Miskha -

You found one poll at one point in time out of months and months of polls saying the opposite of what you're going for and not even necessarily for all the same reasons. My team of polls have proven that people are far more interested in a much more comprehensive healthcare reform than we've gotten. You've proven that 60% of a 1000 people polled today are in favor of repealing healthcare.

There are 300 million people in the united states. I took ten polls just on the public option alone and all of them show that more people are in favor of a better healthcare bill than what we've gotten.

Your more recent poll doesn't overturn or disprove my polls nor does it prove that the majority of all Americans want Healthcare repealed. At best, it's an indicator of a general trend of opinion regarding one question among a small group of randomly chosen individuals.

In short, you haven't proven jack.

EDIT: IT also doesn't help your care since apparently, as Jasyn has pointed out, Rasmussen has proven to be leaning a little too far right.

Some interesting info about Rasmussen.

But the qualitative questions, in terms of their phrasing and so forth, are frequently skewed to give answers friendly toward GOP or conservative viewpoints. All of which is to say that his numbers are valuable. But they need to be read with that bias in mind.

Take them with a few very large grains of salt.

You probably think that losing 63 seats in the house was a flesh wound to the Dem party too?

Virtually every method of measuring data on public opinion has measured that the political climate was better this political season than the one in 1994 that allowed the republicans to take complete control over all of congress.
One election cycle later, the Democrats still control the senate and lost the house, where the republicans now hold a majority. Compare that to '94, when republicans performed much better with much less effort.
So, no, as a matter of fact, I'm not impressed at this win.

[DeistPaladin]

Obama was right about one thing though, the one that was ultimately passed can be the skeleton of a much more comprehensive reform in the future, just as similar bills with medicaid and medicare have done in the past. As those systems were much smaller back in the day and have expanded greatly as time has marched on.

That may well be. If Obama had won such a bill through a hard fight, it may be cause to celebrate. Liberals aren't dissatisfied with Obama because he compromises. Liberals are dissatisfied with Obama because he doesn't even try. He gives half the store away before even arriving at the table. Then he gives most of the other half away and still winds up with nothing to show for it. He's the only president I know of who negotiates himself down even from positions of strength before the other side has even had a chance to meet with him.

Given the overwhelming majorities he started with in both houses, we should have gotten a much better bill. That said, I agree we shouldn't scrap it. It may lead to better things in the future.

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

That may well be. If Obama had won such a bill through a hard fight, it may be cause to celebrate. Liberals aren't dissatisfied with Obama because he compromises. Liberals are dissatisfied with Obama because he doesn't even try. He gives half the store away before even arriving at the table. Then he gives most of the other half away and still winds up with nothing to show for it. He's the only president I know of who negotiates himself down even from positions of strength before the other side has even had a chance to meet with him.

Given the overwhelming majorities he started with in both houses, we should have gotten a much better bill. That said, I agree we shouldn't scrap it. It may lead to better things in the future.

Once again, I can't argue with that.
Between the healthcare bill that was passed and the recent tax cut debacle, I'm wishing more and more that Hilliary Clinton won the primary (and presidency, obviously). There are few politicians that I know of that would fight as hard for something they believed in as she has done in the past. She was the one that nearly got us healtcare despite Republican majorities in the early-mid 90's. Despite her failure, it's hard to argue with a record like that.

[DeistPaladin]

Once again, I can't argue with that.
Between the healthcare bill that was passed and the recent tax cut debacle, I'm wishing more and more that Hilliary Clinton won the primary (and presidency, obviously).

I can understand your logic, in retrospect. Had I heard such an argument then, it might have given me cause to reconsider my support for Obama.

Hillary lost me when she first voted for the Iraq resolution that led to the war and then compounded that mistake when she voted for the resolution against Iran. I could forgive her the first. We were all shocked and scared after 9/11 and passions were running high. But for her to go with Bush on Iran was dangerous. Her inability to learn for her mistake on Iraq or repent for it made me want to go with Obama as an unknown.

It seemed like a good decision at the time. He talked a good game. Somewhere after the election, "Yes we can!" turned into "Aw C'mon Guys!"

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

I wasn't thrilled about the whole Iraq debacle either but the fingers were all pointing to Iraq at the time and most people believed the people doing the pointing.
I've forgiven many of the politicians that signed on to the idea (including Hilliary) but I honestly believe that certain individuals need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law regarding the misdirection and propoganda campaign involving that war. As such, I don't qualify her involvement in that mess as a reason to not vote for her - as even many relatively skeptical people about decision to go to war signed onto it at the time.

It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth all the lies upon lies that led to combat in Iraq, but she believed it was the right thing to do and she still defends that decision to this day. On one hand, I admire the people (who weren't directly responsible for misleading the public and congress) who stuck by that decision despite it's clear unpopularity but on the other hand it would have taken more courage to be much more unpopular then by saying no to everyone else.

Obama is still second tier Presidential material compared even to that but he has two more years to rectify this situation instead of allowing the minority party to rule the country.

Speaking, however, of Judges who ruled against the unconstitutionality of Healthcare reform...

Judge Who Ruled Health Care Reform Unconstitutional Owns Piece of GOP Consulting Firm

Henry E. Hudson, the federal judge in Virginia who just ruled health care reform unconstitutional, owns between $15,000 and $50,000 in a GOP political consulting firm that worked against health care reform. You don't say!

I love how conservatives always like to talk about activist judges and their biased agendas, except, of course, for the ones heavily in the tank for the conservative agenda.

[Jaysyn]

Speaking, however, of Judges who ruled against the unconstitutionality of Healthcare reform...

Judge Who Ruled Health Care Reform Unconstitutional Owns Piece of GOP Consulting Firm

Henry E. Hudson, the federal judge in Virginia who just ruled health care reform unconstitutional, owns between $15,000 and $50,000 in a GOP political consulting firm that worked against health care reform. You don't say!

I love how conservatives always like to talk about activist judges and their biased agendas, except, of course, for the ones heavily in the tank for the conservative agenda.

Actually, the insurance companies are crapping their pants right now because of that judge. The entire law wasn't struck down, just the part that says you can be fined if you don't keep health insurance at all times. This combined with the part of the law that disallows them from denying coverage based on pre-existing health conditions means that you can just go get insurance whenever you are ill, basically defeating the purpose of group coverage. I'd almost feel bad for them if they weren't souless scumbags. Almost.