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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 27, 2018 at 11:52 am
(This post was last modified: September 27, 2018 at 11:53 am by Neo-Scholastic.)
(September 27, 2018 at 10:39 am)Khemikal Wrote: Examining ones convictions and compartmentalization aren't the same things. You compartmentalize the dumb shit and assume there must be some explanation for dumb shit, somewhere. I note that it won't matter if there is, because it's still explaining dumb shit.
That's called begging the question. You have already confirmed in you mind that something is "dumb shit" and instead of wondering if your initial assessment in any way hasty or unfair, your attitude is this. You don't have to figure out if what appears to be the case is actually the case because you already know without question that what appears to be the case is actually so. That's why it is pointless, in general to argue with you, which I'm not. I'm simply pointing out how closed-minded you are.
<insert profound quote here>
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 27, 2018 at 11:54 am
(September 27, 2018 at 11:52 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: That's called begging the question. You have already confirmed in you mind that something is "dumb shit" and instead of wondering if your initial assessment in any way hasty or unfair, your attitude is this. You don't have to figure out if what appears to be the case is actually the case because you already know without question that what appears to be the case is actually so. That's why it is pointless, in general to argue with you, which I'm not. I'm simply pointing out how closed-minded you are.
Isn't that theism you just passed over onto an atheist? Yep, you did.
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 27, 2018 at 11:56 am
(This post was last modified: September 27, 2018 at 11:59 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 27, 2018 at 11:52 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (September 27, 2018 at 10:39 am)Khemikal Wrote: Examining ones convictions and compartmentalization aren't the same things. You compartmentalize the dumb shit and assume there must be some explanation for dumb shit, somewhere. I note that it won't matter if there is, because it's still explaining dumb shit.
That's called begging the question. You have already confirmed in you mind that something is "dumb shit" and instead of wondering if your initial assessment in any way hasty or unfair, your attitude is this. You don't have to figure out if what appears to be the case is actually the case because you already know without question that what appears to be the case is actually so. That's why it is pointless, in general to argue with you, which I'm not. I'm simply pointing out how closed-minded you are.
Sure, I read the dumb shit, checked..and it turned out to be dumb shit. Just because you weren't there when I did it doesn't mean I begged the question... and hey..guess what, it's still dumb shit regardless of whether there's an explanation for dumb shit......again.
Not beleiving in your silly fairy tales doesn't actually qualify for close mindedness.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 27, 2018 at 11:57 am
(September 27, 2018 at 10:24 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (September 26, 2018 at 8:13 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Either you have to show why the mathematical analogy doesn't apply or you have to admit your argument is nonsense.
The correct analogy considers one the largest number because it represents the highest degree of unity possible.
LMAO. Well, then, you have just lost the argument.
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 27, 2018 at 12:04 pm
(September 27, 2018 at 11:46 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: (September 27, 2018 at 11:41 am)robvalue Wrote: It's easy to show it's possible that there is no greatest being, using whatever metric you like, with the maths we have already used.
Let's say it so happens that there are an infinite number of beings that exist, numbered 1,2, and so on. We've numbered them so that there "score" according to this metric is equal to their number. So score(being 1) = 1, score(being 2) = 2, and so on.
Which being has the greatest score? There isn't one.
This is just one possible scenario, out of infinitely many, in which you end up with no greatest being. I expect the counter will be that there cannot be infinitely many beings. Scrabbling around with science isn't going to help you. Science can never be used to definitively discount any possibilities entirely, it just gives us a "best guess" as to what is going on. We certainly can't reliably extrapolate what we know outside of whatever section of reality we inhabit, let alone even assume what we think we know applies to everything within it.
Just stating things are impossible because they don't seem logical to you isn't evidence either. He who lives by pure philosophy dies by it. If we're interested in our "best guess" then we use science, and this produces zero gods due to zero evidence.
I think you make a good point. I will note, however, that Steve categorically rejects the possibility of an actual infinity.
Thank you 
I see. Well, sadly for him, reality doesn't care about his opinion. I can reject his rejection, and reality doesn't care about that either!
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 27, 2018 at 12:08 pm
(This post was last modified: September 27, 2018 at 12:10 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I thinks it's intuitively easy, btw, to exclude babykilling in greatness, but that has to do with our reaction to the word. Let's try a babykiller by a different name.
A warrior. If god is the greatest possible being, would he not have to be the greatest warrior? How many cracked skulls does one need to notch up for that honorific? How many cracked skulls can (or has) god notched up to get that one...until he loses one of the other honorifics he needs to maintain the title?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 27, 2018 at 12:09 pm
(This post was last modified: September 27, 2018 at 12:09 pm by Silver.)
(September 27, 2018 at 12:08 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I thinks it's intuitively easy, btw, to exclude babykilling in greatness, but that has to do with our reaction to the word. Let's try a babykiller by a different name.
A warrior. If god is the greatest possible being, would he not have to be the greatest warrior? How many cracked skulls does one need to notch up for that honorific?
How can god be a warrior when he assigns his tasks to others?
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 27, 2018 at 12:16 pm
If God was so great, you'd think he wouldn't need to resort to threats of torture just to try and coerce people into believing he exists, let alone that he's actually great enough to worship. Just tying it back in with the thread topic!
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 27, 2018 at 12:16 pm
(This post was last modified: September 27, 2018 at 12:18 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
There's a type of combatant called a commander, lol. Not that it would matter, since god..to be the greatest possible being, would have to be the greatest groundpounder -and- the greatest commander.
Yet more cracked skulls.
The people who came up with this god were, for the record, thoroughly impressed by his military prowess. This isn't a set that a believer can ignore or set aside. God -has- to be good at killing people. That's always been a part of his identity, even if we moderns find it suddenly distasteful.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 27, 2018 at 12:19 pm
If God is the greatest at something, that means he's actually the worst at the opposite of that thing. So it's a matter of who gets to say which particular way we are measuring each thing. God, presumably. How convenient. I mean, if I could set the parameters, I could end up being God. I'm the best at being me, and that's how you determine what God is.
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