Tipping in the service industry

[Ravenshire]

Thoughts here?

There are two groups of people I always tip*. The people who bring my food and the people who cut my hair. They are the two groups of people most able to completely fuck up my day.

On a more serious note, I hate the system of lowballing pay and making people reliant on tips. It's gotten to the point where "gratuity" is now a requirement, not given out of gratitude for exceptional service.

* Unless they've already burned the bridge with shitty service and I'm never coming back. Then they get a few cents, so they know I didn't just forget.

[CapnAwesome]

There are good arguments on both sides of the tipping debate, but can we all at least agree that the state of tipping in America is mostly caused by owners not paying their workers adequate wages?

No, of course not.

Because other countries, say Spain and most southern european, pay less for minimum wage and don't have tipping. So how do you explain that?

Not to mention in most states they can pay tipped employees less as long as their tips total up more than the minimum. So that's a problem with the government's minimum wage laws, not tipping.

So obviously tipping is a cultural thing. Also part of the reason you normally get better service in the US.

I get tips at my job, but if I didn't I wouldn't work there. I'd do something else that pays more.

You can make tons of money as a good waiter in California, Oregon or Washington where they stack a high minimum wage on top of tips.

[Angrboda]

I'd rather express my dissatisfaction with poor service by failing to patronize a business rather than omitting the tip altogether. As noted, people depend upon tips for their livelihood, so viewing it as a reward for a particular level of service to me seems misplaced. I might incentivize better service by not tipping extra, or by tipping lower than the so-called standard amount, but I don't view tipping as being solely a reward for good service, so I don't omit it based on that premise. I, too, would prefer that we get away from models of compensation which rely on tipping, I'm just not sure that's a practical goal. Though I suppose if you don't ask for it you're never gonna get it.

Additionally, people do have off days, I'm not going to penalize someone against their livelihood when it might be because someone is having an off day. I know I've given shitty tips on occasion, either for miscalculating the amount, or being unusually sensitive to the cost on a particular day, so it would be somewhat hypocritical of me to base my tip on what may just be a bad day. If I repeatedly get bad service from the same person, then it's time to either have a talk with that person or the management, or look for somewhere else to take my business.

[Ravenshire]

I seem to recall a story about a restaurant (in Seattle?  maybe?) that raised their employees' pay to $15/hour, raised their prices, and then put signs out telling customers that tipping was banned.

I wonder if I can find it?

I guess doing it that way, it would all even out in the end. However, if a table of 8 sits down and creates a $300 bill, the wait staff should get a standard 18% gratuity. In this case, the server should get way more than the $15 an hour the employee gives. Especially if the server is running all over the place and constantly giving that one table most of their attention. 

If you look at  most menus, at the bottom or on the back somewhere it will specifically state that parties of XX or more will be subjected to a gratuity and that checks cannot be separated.

Yeah, not sure I agree with the table of eight argument. It seems that it's a product of the system of underpaying staff to begin with. The food service industry is the only industry I know of where that type of rule applies. Certainly no one is paying me more on slammed days than they do on regular days.

What we need is not more enforcement of tips, but a system where tips are the gratuity they're supposed to be. If I'm going to pay $60 for $40 worth of menu items anyway, I'd rather see that reflected in my bill. I can then decide if gratuity is applicable (staff did more than take my order and bring my food) and express gratitude for service above and beyond as applicable.

I've had staff who provided complete shit service chase me into the parking lot demanding a tip. That too, is a product of the system. The system is broken and needs replacing, not fixing.

[Minimalist]

In this case, the server should get way more than the $15 an hour the employee gives.

What's not generally known is that the waiter has to tip out the busboys and cooks and other employees who do not get tips themselves.

Again, what is written into the law is a mechanism so that restaurant owners are exempt from the Fair Labor Standards Act so they can make more money and force the customers to subsidize their workers.

[emjay]

I don't use many services that expect tipping since I don't go out that much... the only thing I can think of is occasionally going to restaurants. I pay, or chip in for, the tip, but tbh I don't really understand it; I don't really consider that in my mind as tipping, at least not what I'd consider the spirit of tipping, but just a strange custom; I think of tipping as something you do when you've been impressed by an individual's service... something that comes out of choice rather than obligation, as a expression of gratitude to an individual, and based on individual merits. Like sometimes I'm particularly impressed by the service/manner of a bartender in a pub and ask if I can tip them, individually. But if it's just the custom that a certain percentage of the bill is essentially obligated to be paid, regardless of service quality and irrespective of individuals, then although I'll do it since it is the custom, it ceases to be what I see as the essence of tipping, and something else entirely.

[The Valkyrie]

Tipping in the service industry?

You mean, when someone's served you food, for instance, you push them over?

You Americans have a weird culture...

[CapnAwesome]

I don't use many services that expect tipping since I don't go out that much... the only thing I can think of is occasionally going to restaurants. I pay, or chip in for, the tip, but tbh I don't really understand it; I don't really consider that in my mind as tipping, at least not what I'd consider the spirit of tipping, but just a strange custom; I think of tipping as something you do when you've been impressed by an individual's service... something that comes out of choice rather than obligation, as a expression of gratitude to an individual, and based on individual merits. Like sometimes I'm particularly impressed by the service/manner of a bartender in a pub and ask if I can tip them, individually. But if it's just the custom that a certain percentage of the bill is essentially obligated to be paid, regardless of service quality and irrespective of individuals, then although I'll do it since it is the custom, it ceases to be what I see as the essence of tipping, and something else entirely.

Well you normally get pretty good service in America. If you get bad service you don't have to tip.

---

In this case, the server should get way more than the $15 an hour the employee gives.

What's not generally known is that the waiter has to tip out the busboys and cooks and other employees who do not get tips themselves.

Again, what is written into the law is a mechanism so that restaurant owners are exempt from the Fair Labor Standards Act so they can make more money and force the customers to subsidize their workers.

Yeah, but if you aren't tipping, the prices are just going to go up an equal amount to make up the difference. Actually a tipping system is better. You normally can make well over 15$ an hour and it rewards good service.

---

I seem to recall a story about a restaurant (in Seattle?  maybe?) that raised their employees' pay to $15/hour, raised their prices, and then put signs out telling customers that tipping was banned.

I wonder if I can find it?

That's more or less how they do it in Europe and Australia. I'd much rather get tips than a flat 15$ an hour. Esspecially in Seattle.

[Joods]

I remember when I was in school and I moved from the pre-salon side to the senior salon side, where I was on the floor working on real clients. Because we were students, we were not allowed to get paid, but we were allowed to get tips. I did a perm on some lady's waist length hair. Being we were a school, salon prices were very cheap. It would have cost her $100 elsewhere for that perm but it only cost her $25 at my school. She was so happy with the job that I did, that she gave me $40! That was a good night for me.

[CapnAwesome]

I remember when I was in school and I moved from the pre-salon side to the senior salon side, where I was on the floor working on real clients. Because we were students, we were not allowed to get paid, but we were allowed to get tips. I did a perm on some lady's waist length hair. Being we were a school, salon prices were very cheap. It would have cost her $100 elsewhere for that perm but it only cost her $25 at my school. She was so happy with the job that I did, that she gave me $40! That was a good night for me.

Btw, on opening post, crazy to not tip a hair dresser. I would never do that.

You don't need to be tipping every coffee person or delivery person. But if you are going to interact with someone for half an hour or more, you better tip.