Miracles and their place, and Atheists.

[Gwaithmir]

Condense and leave only clear points. I had hard time following what your saying.

The summary is because miracles are not in the open,  we should excuse people for their lack of faith in God or the path, because of lack of power to acknowledge it.

The burden of proof lies upon he who alleges. You should be aware that I'm perfectly willing to believe in god(s), ghosts, mediums, demons, angels, spirits, channeling, miracles, horoscopes, astrology, psychics, Ouija boards, the supernatural, and anything else for that matter, as long as they adhere to one proviso: prove it! That's all I ask for. Just one simple request. Prove it!

Don't give me speculations, guesses, hopes, dreams, wishes, desires, beliefs, faith (or appeals to faith), or indoctrinations. Don't give me one-time-only, non-repeatable, non-testable events. Don't give me internal alterations in one's psychology or physiology which cannot be tested, observed or demonstrated, only felt or believed. And don't give me effects that cannot be related to the supposed cause.

I have no objection to believing in a deity or miracles as long as proof based upon a rational standard of knowledge is forthcoming. Is that too much to ask? But surely, you can't expect me to adopt your beliefs on the basis of what has been presented, thus far. Every "proof" that I've heard and very piece of evidence that I've seen for the existence of God and miracles has been easily countered by rational evidence/arguments to the contrary. No convincing evidence for the existence of miracles or any deity has ever emerged.

I'm more than willing to listen to theistic arguments or view theistic evidence as long as cross-examination is permitted. No claims which must be shielded from rational scrutiny are worth believing. As conditions now stand, theology rests far more on superstition and faith, than upon facts and reason.

[devilsadvoc8]

Lots of convoluted text in the OP. Seems interesting that the OP claims that the problem is with the person doubting the veracity of the miracle and has presented their idea in a wall of text that itself is difficult to understand. Perhaps the OP itself is a miracle?

[FatAndFaithless]

For the recent batch of new folks, just a heads up that Mystic's posts are usually at least somewhat incoherent, rambling, nonsensical, and sometimes a little worrying. No, it's not just you that notices that.

[The Grand Nudger]

Cultist thinks his cult is The Truth™.  Pursuant to this, Cultist needs to rationalize the fact that others think he's a loon cultist. Hiddenness is a double bonus. Not only does it provide a loon cultist with something to say, it also sets up the loon cultist as one of the blessed few granted sight into this hidden world.

Nothing new or surprising.

[Rahn127]

Let me channel my inner Tracie Harris.
"What is it that you are calling a miracle ? Are you defining a miracle as a really rare event ?"

---- No, a miracle is something that happens that you weren't expecting to happen. It's a nearly impossible situation that miraculously occurs.

"That sounds like a really rare event to me. How do you determine what is a miracle vs a really rare event ?"

--- Well you see something on the news and you call it a miracle. Like a plane crash where everyone dies except one person.

"So, 195 people out of 196 die in a plane crash and you think that's god's way of telling us that he exists, by putting 195 familes through the trauma of bury a loved one that they will never get to see again. That's your miracle ?"

[robvalue]

I would have thought that plane crashes are an excellent event for believers. Assuming they are suitably in favour at the time, they get to skip the rest of this life and go straight to the "good bit". There’s no risk of being led astray in the future, and they get around that pesky suicide clause.