IF you deconverted in midlife, can you help?

[Little lunch]

I got good news for you Dragonfly.
There is no hell.
There can not possibly be any hell.
Why?
Because if there would be an hell there wouldn t be  God.
But let me explain to you this point.
Being God perfect an imperfection would mean that He is not perfect.
Hell is a place where imperfections are to be dumped.
The so called sinners therefore would be dumped in this rubbish bin.
Rubbish creation is not part of God otherwise he wouldn t be perfect so hell is out of the question.
To sort out imbalances that pop up here and there God established the Karma law but this is something that you will learn later on.

Religions have done terrible things especially by inventing the hell and at the proper time they too will learn and punished by the karma law.
So try to be happy and put hell stories in the rubbish bin where they belong.
Atheists on the other hand have very little to teach you.
Spirituality is lot lot better.
Have a lovely day away from the fear of hell and religions.

It's nice that you're trying to help. :-)

Also, I don't think CarveTheFive meant to sound so nasty and maybe didn't deserve to be slammed so harshly.

Dragonfly, there are benefits to being an atheist, namely you can be free to be yourself.
I'd advise you to focus on the perks.
Also, don't forget what depression does.
It takes a little cloud on the horizon and turns it into an end-of-the-world thunderstorm.
Hang in there, buddy. :-)

[CarveTheFive]

Also, I don't think CarveTheFive meant to sound so nasty and maybe didn't deserve to be slammed so harshly.

I appreciate that.

[brewer]

I keep reading "IF you deconvert a midwife...", which is not a bad idea.

[Simon Moon]

Deleted post.

[Dragonfly]

Wow.  Smart kid.

Pretty remarkable video. Thanks for sharing!

[AFTT47]

I'm one of the life-long atheists but I do fear death. I guess I'm atypical of atheists in that I'm not okay with the fact that I don't have the power to live as long as I want to. I have nothing but derision at attempts to sugar-coat this.

As far as dealing with it, I guess it's the same as dealing with anything negative that's out of our control. There is no sense complaining that rain is wet or that it gets so damn hot here in Phoenix. There's just no point in focusing on negatives we currently have no ability to do anything about.

I appreciate your honesty. Yeah, for me the end is like an hourglass that I can't help viewing as half-empty. It's like a shadow that's always on my mind. I try not to focus on it, but I have a lot of trouble with that. 

Dragonfly, I urge you to watch this video. It's a documentary done by theoretical physicist Brian Green where he explains how Einstein's General Theory of Relativity requires that all of time is extant. The past is not actually gone, the future is not non-existent. It's all there. Life still has a beginning and an end but that window of time when we are alive exists as long as the universe exists. I'm not sure what to make of that from a metaphysical standpoint but it's one of the things that give me some small measure of comfort.

I don't know how much theoretical physics you'e familiar with but don't be intimidated by this. Brian Green does a superb job explaining it in everyday terms.

[Dragonfly]

Sport. It helps mind and body to heal. And regarding sport, doctors suggest to breath through nose during the exercise for optimal performance.

"The Exercise Prescription for Depression, Anxiety, and Stress. Everyone knows that regular exercise is good for the body. But exercise is also one of the most effective ways to improve your mental health. ... It also relieves stress, improves memory, helps you sleep better, and boosts overall mood".



Matt Dillahunty spend around 25 years in fundamentalist christian religion. He has many vids on ytube where he answers every possible question regarding religion.

I really hate to exercise, but I know it has so many health benefits. I'll talk with my boyfriend and see if he wants to start walking with me when he's recovered from the flu. Thanks for the video--adding to my watch list!

@Abbadon_ire

I don't know how to reply in-line when quotes are threaded this deeply, so I'll just try here. 

"Be warned. Believers who you know will actively exploit that. It is just one more shitty thing believers do."

Yes, I am very vulnerable right now. Thankfully, other than a few close secular friends, nobody else knows. Theists would LOVE this anxiety. It's the God-shaped vacuum and all of that. 

As far as recommending stuff that helped you get through the existential crisis, I would love to hear it.

40 years on, I still occasionally get that existential dread. That is normal. Such nonsense has been embedded in your head over the course of years. Personally, when I feel such things, I simply stop and ask "Wait just a damn minute...What?". A few moments quiet reflection reveals the Pavlovian response for exactly what it is. A conditioned response. It has been beaten into your head so that it becomes an instant knee-jerk response, particularly under stress.

My best advice is that when such occurs, just stop and think in a serene pool of rational thought. Ask yourself why are you entertaining such irrational thoughts. You will quickly find that this is a conditioned response, AND THEY DID IT PURPOSEFULLY TO YOU.

And you are not alone. Never think you are alone.

As for the other clown? Clowns do clown stuff, who would have thunk.

I like the "wait just a damn minute..what?" method. You're right--it's worse with stress and illness. I think they who did this to me really believed what they taught. They are all victims themselves. Doesn't make it right, though. 

Hi, Dragonfly!

I didn't come out as an atheist until I was in my 30's, having overcome 12½ years of Roman Catholic indoctrination through years of deep introspection and comparative religious study. I too had to deal with residual fears of hell or other forms of divine retribution. One thing that helped immensely was the support of fellow atheists. I joined American Atheists in 1982. You should check the internet for atheist groups in your area.

I've been going to a Skeptics group I found on meetup.com that is an affiliate/partner of American Atheists. My boyfriend is an atheist, too, so we have some great discussions. I've met a couple of other atheists for dinner as well to try to sort out these things, and I find almost all of my belief and actions were out of fear. The group has been very supportive.

---

I appreciate your honesty. Yeah, for me the end is like an hourglass that I can't help viewing as half-empty. It's like a shadow that's always on my mind. I try not to focus on it, but I have a lot of trouble with that. 

Dragonfly, I urge you to watch this video. It's a documentary done by theoretical physicist Brian Green where he explains how Einstein's General Theory of Relativity requires that all of time is extant. The past is not actually gone, the future is not non-existent. It's all there. Life still has a beginning and an end but that window of time when we are alive exists as long as the universe exists. I'm not sure what to make of that from a metaphysical standpoint but it's one of the things that give me some small measure of comfort.

I don't know how much theoretical physics you'e familiar with but don't be intimidated by this. Brian Green does a superb job explaining it in everyday terms.

Thanks for the video recommendation--sounds fascinating! My boyfriend is an atheist, and he, too, has mentioned these kinds of things about time. We'll watch this together.

---

I got good news for you Dragonfly.
There is no hell.
There can not possibly be any hell.
Why?
Because if there would be an hell there wouldn t be  God.
But let me explain to you this point.
Being God perfect an imperfection would mean that He is not perfect.
Hell is a place where imperfections are to be dumped.
The so called sinners therefore would be dumped in this rubbish bin.
Rubbish creation is not part of God otherwise he wouldn t be perfect so hell is out of the question.
To sort out imbalances that pop up here and there God established the Karma law but this is something that you will learn later on.

Religions have done terrible things especially by inventing the hell and at the proper time they too will learn and punished by the karma law.
So try to be happy and put hell stories in the rubbish bin where they belong.
Atheists on the other hand have very little to teach you.
Spirituality is lot lot better.
Have a lovely day away from the fear of hell and religions.

It's nice that you're trying to help. :-)

Also, I don't think CarveTheFive meant to sound so nasty and maybe didn't deserve to be slammed so harshly.

Dragonfly, there are benefits to being an atheist, namely you can be free to be yourself.
I'd advise you to focus on the perks.
Also, don't forget what depression does.
It takes a little cloud on the horizon and turns it into an end-of-the-world thunderstorm.
Hang in there, buddy. :-)

Then maybe he needs to pay attention to the name of a thread as well as thoroughly read the first post and stay out of it if he has nothing of value to add. If someone is ignorant, they can still do damage. The last thing I need is to have to sit here and justify why I'm really not a believer. 

Yes, depression is clouding my view. OCD isn't helping. As you might know, with OCD there's a lot of "what if" thinking. People with OCD want certainty, and there's no way to be 100% certain about many things. So the what-if questions flood me sometimes and DO become what you described as an end-of-the-world thunderstorm. Catastrophizing. I'll work on it! Thank you

[Seraphina]

Hi, All, 

Most of the atheists I've met have been so for their entire lives, or at least since they were kids. I think those of us who leave religion in midlife or well into our adulthood have a different experience as we have a lifetime of conditioning to overcome. I'm really struggling, some days more than others. I hope you'll read the intro, but if you don't want to, please jump to the numbered list at the bottom. (thank you)


...I became the most reluctant atheist I can imagine. I did NOT set out to become an atheist, only to know what truth is, and that led to lack of evidence for Biblegod. 

It's always remarkable when I hear people say they've been atheist since a very, very young age like age 4 or in utero or something like that. Actually we're all atheist at birth. However, whether or not you follow religion at such a tender age is highly dependent on the beliefs of your family of origin. Whether a particular child is raised religiously or not is decided by that family, not by the child themselves. 
Very young children do not grasp the permanency of death, much less whether they should challenge their moms'/ dads' and societal beliefs in gods.
So people who drop religion and become atheist in middle age are much more common than you might think.

I don't have specific answers to your questions but I think dealing with your depression and anxiety in tandem with you grappling with atheism will help. And it sounds like you are on the right track and doing just that. As I said in your intro thread, you're gonna be ok! Keep asking questions - the beauty of atheism is you get to do that - and stay on track. Do keep us posted on how you're doing.

-Teresa

[Abaddon_ire]

I like the "wait just a damn minute..what?" method. You're right--it's worse with stress and illness. I think they who did this to me really believed what they taught. They are all victims themselves. Doesn't make it right, though. 

Stress and Illness are moments of vulnerability that the religious are quite happy to exploit. They sometimes do this in person, but more often by planting those seeds in your mind as a child.

Now, I have had my share of medical misadventures up to and including full on OOBE under anesthesia complete with tunnel and light. So I know it is a load of bollocks for a fact.

[The Grand Nudger]

If there is a hell, and some god to send you there, it's not as if there's anything you could do about it.  

I try not to spend time worrying about things I have no control over, on principle.