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RE: God and Morality: Separate Issues
January 3, 2011 at 11:38 pm
(January 1, 2011 at 1:24 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Option 3: God is morality ...
Please cite references. I am well versed and educated in Christian apologetics, and I have never seen anyone argue that God and morality are ontologically identical. Please provide evidence that there are some within Christian apologetics who make this argument, that "God is morality."
DeistPaladin Wrote:This is classic circular reasoning. "We know that God is good because God is good".
Same as above. Please provide evidence that there are some within Christian apologetics who make this argument.
DeistPaladin Wrote:The issue of whether or not God exists is irrelevant to questions of right and wrong.
Sure, if you are content to beg the question.
Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when
called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason.
(Oscar Wilde)
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RE: God and Morality: Separate Issues
January 4, 2011 at 3:58 pm
(This post was last modified: January 4, 2011 at 4:04 pm by DeistPaladin.)
(January 3, 2011 at 10:44 pm)Stempy Wrote: (January 3, 2011 at 11:19 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Can you answer my earlier question as to why an advocate for a position doesn't need to explain what they mean by a position? I don't think I claimed the contrary did I?
Yes.
Quote:there is no necessity for an advocate of Option 3 to say that "We know God is good because God is good". In fact, that statement has nothing to do with the ontology of morality (which is the what the traditional Moral Arguments are about) but epistemology.
Getting rid of all the fancy philosophical terms apologists use to obfuscate their nonsense:
"We don't have to explain what we mean or how we figure what we claim to be true. We aren't discussing our logic or how we know something to be true (epistemology), just what we claim to be true (ontology). So we can just say 'God is good and without God you have no basis to discuss morality' without all the hassle having to explain our logic."
Philosophy is often abused by apologists. Their logic always sounds ridiculous when you take out all the two-dollar words.
(January 3, 2011 at 11:38 pm)Ryft Wrote: Please cite references. I am well versed and educated in Christian apologetics, and I have never seen anyone argue that God and morality are ontologically identical. Please provide evidence that there are some within Christian apologetics who make this argument, that "God is morality."
My debates with Theologica37 where he avoided the first two options by claiming the third. I'll see if I can dig up some more academic sources.
Can we agree that anyone, academic or layman, who does make such a claim is using circular reasoning, as I have explained?
DeistPaladin Wrote:The issue of whether or not God exists is irrelevant to questions of right and wrong.
Sure, if you are content to beg the question.
[/quote]
Well do tell then, if I've missed any other options. That's what this thread is all about.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: God and Morality: Separate Issues
January 4, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Quote:Getting rid of all the fancy philosophical terms apologists use to obfuscate their nonsense
AHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHA
HAHA
Okay I'm done. That was just too funny.
Anyway, on the subject of morality and God...I would choose option 3: God is good. All that is not God is not good, and all that is God is good. To understand this in it's entirity would be to view the whole of what God is and what composes His 'being'. And that's just not goddamn possible for us in this or any life, unfortunately. So I've just gotta say it this way;
I have no fucking clue where morality comes from!
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RE: God and Morality: Separate Issues
January 4, 2011 at 5:20 pm
(January 4, 2011 at 4:23 pm)Watson Wrote: God is good.
Were did you get that immpression?
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: God and Morality: Separate Issues
January 4, 2011 at 5:24 pm
From my experience and time with Him and it's affects on me.
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RE: God and Morality: Separate Issues
January 4, 2011 at 5:28 pm
(January 4, 2011 at 5:24 pm)Watson Wrote: From my experience and time with Him and it's affects on me.
 hock:
Take some lithium and the voices will disappear.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: God and Morality: Separate Issues
January 4, 2011 at 5:43 pm
hahahaha, I love you guys, I really do. It's always fun talking to you all. I'd rather not medicate myself, to be honest. I don't trust pills, at least not usually. Call me crazy if you'd like but...wait, you do that anyway.
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RE: God and Morality: Separate Issues
January 4, 2011 at 5:44 pm
(This post was last modified: January 4, 2011 at 5:52 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(January 4, 2011 at 5:28 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Take some lithium and the voices will disappear.
Being someone who actually TAKES Lithium... (400mgs a night, previously 600mgs, before that 800mgs, and before that 600mgs again) I happen to know that it doesn't treat voices. Lithium is a mood stabilizer not an anti-psychotic. It treats illnesses such as Bipolarity (Manic Depression/Bipolar disorder) and other mood disorders...not "hearing voices" or schizophrenia.
Extreme mania or paranoia can make one very delusional (as I have been the former in the past) but it's not "Hearing voices" or schizophrenia unless it's also hallucination (which I have never had (hearing voices are aural hallucinations)).
(January 4, 2011 at 5:43 pm)Watson Wrote: hahahaha, I love you guys, I really do. It's always fun talking to you all. I'd rather not medicate myself, to be honest. I don't trust pills,
If I'd never taken Lithium I would have either taken longer to recover or I'd still be a nutcase.
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RE: God and Morality: Separate Issues
January 4, 2011 at 6:20 pm
I totally understand, man, believe me. The need for medication can be there in some people...it's just that in me I have found I don't require such things and don't have want of them for anything going on in my mind. No offense meant by it, of course.
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RE: God and Morality: Separate Issues
January 4, 2011 at 7:35 pm
Quote:there is no necessity for an advocate of Option 3 to say that "We know God is good because God is good".
Here you go, I have put in bold the entire statement that I made.
You somehow seem to think that this means:
Quote:"We don't have to explain what we mean or how we figure what we claim to be true.
How you interpret me as saying this I have absolutely no idea. Have another go at reading what I originally said and see if you can interpret me as not being stupid.
Quote:Philosophy is often abused by apologists. Their logic always sounds ridiculous when you take out all the two-dollar words.
If it comes across as ridiculous, then it might be worth seeing if perhaps the mistake might be in your misinterpretation of what they are saying. If there are words I've used with which you are unfamiliar, then I am happy to give you their definitions.
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