are any of you honest enough to simply answer the question asked?

[Yonadav]

My mom did one after my twin sisters. She had 3 little mouths to feed, low income cow manure to clean, feed and milk the cows, she couldn't even take care of us. She tells me this with sorrow and I know it wasn't an easy decision. My dad thought they could make it, but respected her decision.

The little moralists on this are the biggest hypocrites. When they are in the womb they are sacred. After they are born they are fucked.

Your mother's decision to not bring a child into the world that she couldn't afford to take care of is a decision that I completely respect. She made a difficult decision for rational reasons.

[WinterHold]

The problem isn't "body autonomy"; "body autonomy" is an innate capacity; our bodies are our own.

But a child is not; they are souls separate from us, a new lifeforms. Calling them "our own" is the crime, and leaching over their life is a bigger crime.

They are just bullying the child because he/she is a mere feetus. If he/she got some strength to fight back, they will all shut up.

But are there any verses in the Koran about causing a woman to miscarry? There is in the Torah. And the penalty isn't the same as the penalty for murder or manslaughter. From this, we derive that the unborn are not persons with the rights of people. We don't condone abortion for anything other than the health of the woman, but abortion isn't murder.

Specifying "miscarry" in specific doesn't exist. The closest I could get is the verse I mentioned.
The argument is about either the feetus is a "complete human life" or "not".

If it's not "fully human"; then killing it is not like killing "a full human being". That's what I would draw from the verse.

---

The exact same punishment for the male:



Why are you ignoring that the Quran said very clearly about this matter ?

It is not just Islamophobic; it's more than that from your side.

LOL... So, according to you and your religion men and women are physically equal then, right? I'll bet muslim boxers fight women in the ring, because a punch is the same for a 60kg woman as for a 120 kg man... Is that why you beat your wives? I'm glad islam promotes gender equality - but why is it only when it suits the barbarian goat-f*ckers, who came up with it?...

Incidentally - do you also whip a goat, when some married muslim is caught with his d*ck inside it?  

Why do you ignore the fact, that an unfaithful man DOESN'T have to carry his unwanted bastard inside himself for nine months and your quran doesn't say sh*t about that -or does it?. It's not just standard muslim misogyny; it's more like incel talk, which is not surprising, coming from you. Are you upset that women f*ck other guys, but not you? Is that why you're bitter about them being able to avoid having unwanted children as punishment?  

No; men and women are not physically equal according to the Quran.
That assumption is your personal opinion.

Please refer to this topic to find out more about the "wife beating verse" in the Quran:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-56875.html

As for carrying the child, it's a responsibility not a burden. Why do you treat women as children that shouldn't have a responsibility tied to their necks; just like males have a responsibility tied to them?

If she can't keep that child alive; then she shall step aside. It's human life we're speaking about here; it's not a goat farm.Even goats take the responsibility of a child better than some humans.

The adultery is the mistake of both the father and the mother; the punishment in the Quran was directed to both equally. Women are not physically equal to men -unlike feminists try to claim-, but also women are not children and they won't cheat the responsibility of housing that fetus for 9 months -mostly with their own free will except in rape- inside of them.

[Homeless Nutter]

No; men and women are not physically equal according to the Quran.

They're not? Then how is lashing a weaker woman 100 times the same as lashing a stronger man 100 times? I guess your god didn't think about that, huh?

As for carrying the child, it's a responsibility not a burden. Why do you treat women as children that shouldn't have a responsibility tied to their necks; just like males have a responsibility tied to them?

Oh, really? So what's the responsibility of a muslim man, who impregnated a woman that's not his wife?

If she can't keep that child alive; then she shall step aside. It's human life we're speaking about here; it's not a goat farm.

Yeah, I've seen how much muslims care about human life. I shudder to think what goat farms look like in the Middle East...

Even goats take the responsibility of a child better than some humans.[...]

That's not fair. I'm sure your mother tried her best...

[WinterHold]

No; men and women are not physically equal according to the Quran.

They're not? Then how is lashing a weaker woman 100 times the same as lashing a stronger man 100 times? I guess your god didn't think about that, huh?

I'm very confused now.
When we say they're not physically equal; we're sexist.
When we say they're equal; we're stupid.
Why do you paint the insult with a rational paint? it's better to say that "Muslims are goats no matter what their religion actually says".

In other words; don't hide your true colors.

As for carrying the child, it's a responsibility not a burden. Why do you treat women as children that shouldn't have a responsibility tied to their necks; just like males have a responsibility tied to them?

Oh, really? So what's the responsibility of a muslim man, who impregnated a woman that's not his wife?

100 lashes as the verse say

---

The exact same punishment for the male

Well, it’s not exactly the same, now is it?  Since, ya know...the male doesn’t have to carry and birth the baby, and take care of it after it’s born.

That's why the wife in Islam is not required to provide food for the family or spend on the husband.
Men on the other hand are required to feed the family and spend on both the wife and the kids.

---

My mom did one after my twin sisters. She had 3 little mouths to feed, low income cow manure to clean, feed and milk the cows, she couldn't even take care of us. She tells me this with sorrow and I know it wasn't an easy decision. My dad thought they could make it, but respected her decision.

The little moralists on this are the biggest hypocrites. When they are in the womb they are sacred. After they are born they are fucked.

Children must be treated as sacred -just like any other form of life-.

[Homeless Nutter]

They're not? Then how is lashing a weaker woman 100 times the same as lashing a stronger man 100 times? I guess your god didn't think about that, huh?

I'm very confused now.

Yeah, no doubt.

When we say they're not physically equal; we're sexist.

You are.

When we say they're equal; we're stupid.

You are stupid. But the point is, that if you decided, that women are weaker and smaller and therefore can't take as much physical stress as men, then if you wanted to be consistent and fair, you should beat them proportionally less. A fat guy won't even feel 100 lashes, whereas a skinny woman will die. Maybe have weight classes for beating?

Why do you paint the insult with a rational paint? it's better to say that "Muslims are goats no matter what their religion actually says".

Goatf*ckers. I said: goatf*ckers.

Oh, really? So what's the responsibility of a muslim man, who impregnated a woman that's not his wife?

100 lashes as the verse say

But that's the same as the woman, who ALSO has to carry a bastard. So where's this responsibility that men have "tied to them", you were babbling on about? Can't you even keep your bullsh*t straight?

[Yonadav]

They're not? Then how is lashing a weaker woman 100 times the same as lashing a stronger man 100 times? I guess your god didn't think about that, huh?

I'm very confused now.
When we say they're not physically equal; we're sexist.
When we say they're equal; we're stupid.
Why do you paint the insult with a rational paint? it's better to say that "Muslims are goats no matter what their religion actually says".

In other words; don't hide your true colors.

Oh, really? So what's the responsibility of a muslim man, who impregnated a woman that's not his wife?

100 lashes as the verse say

That's an awful lot of lashes. We administer 39 lashes for crimes for which the penalty is lashes. The max is 40 lashes, but we have to stop at 39 just in case we miscounted. It is absolutely forbidden to give more than 40. If we fear that a person isn't fit enough to bear 39 lashes, we reduce the number.

Amusingly, there was a Jewish woman in the Amazon Discussions Forum several years ago who was a big fan of lashes, but for some bizarre reason she thought that lashes were only given to men. She became really offended when we told her that women get the same punishment that men do. She pretty much stopped talking to us. But it was really funny how enthusiastic she was about lashes, when she though that it was only men who received them.

[Drich]

1.5 billion abortions since 1980, huh???

Good thing.


That' s 1. 5 billion unwanted mouths to feed that we don't have.


When you loudmouthed " pro- lifers," end hunger and starvation --- get back with us.....

Stay on topic stay on topic...


1.5 billion individual's blood on your hands via your ideology in your life time.

God kill a fraction of that in the way of murderers monsters and hybrids who's evil far exceeds anything we can currently do to each other.And he does so over the course of several millennia  

No wonder you hate God.. After the justification of the murder of 1.5 billion babies I too would see my self on the God hit list.

---

Again my question centers around a fully developed baby who can on it's own live outside the womb without any machines or mechanical assistance. who is to be literally ripped apart inutero and pulled out one piece at a time.

That's not a thing. Stop trying to make it a thing.

another pre ban warning or can I show you pictures of an actual procedure? or google late term or partial birth abortions. there are illustrations that show a clinical procedure to a sonogram that shows a baby inutro screaming and trying to get away from a suction tube ripping it apart. or click below and there you will find the net results of both

---

 https://www.pinterest.com/FreedomsAus/gr...n-victims/

---

---

Killing is killing. Abortion is nothing but a woman's decision to escape the dept that might result from a moment of lust that she failed to control.

That's why adultery should be a crime in the first place.

It's simple: just like thieves steal and psychopaths kill, a male or a female lusts and can either rape or have normal sex. The consequences are then met with murdering the child resulting from "the moment of sex".

Pure evil, disgusting if you ask me.

Huh, forgot that females are solely responsible for the creation of offspring.


Nevermind a situation where she may've been raped.

Nevermind a situation where she can't afford the medical expenses from the pregnancy.

Nevermind a situation where her life or mental health may be at stake.


You are not pro-life, you are pro-birth. The statistics do not lie--criminalizing abortion DOES NOT decrease their rates, it increases the death rates of women who inevitably seek them out using unsafe methods, or go through with a risky pregnancy. Instead, push for easier access to contraceptives, better sex education, and a more stable economy--THAT will decrease abortion rates.

there are hundreds you exceptions represents next to the 10's of thousands of abortions already completed this year.

IF you want to speak intelligently and not just assume some wild number of people will have to have abortion because they are raped by uncle grand pa know you speak of 800 ish cases next to the 3.8 million who did since 1-1-19
http://www.numberofabortions.com/

You douche bags preach the exceptions to the rule as if the world is only made up of special cases when in fact the rule seems to be abortion is just a late stage form of birth control/manipulation.

---

Drich are you honest enough to answer my question?  You got a pinecone stuck in your ass again, didn't you? Rhetorical, I know you did.  Bless.

RAmen.

close, ever since the missues and I saw little niki (adam sandler joint)  we switched to pine APPLEs.

---

not for nothing the same feeling you feel now is how we feel some from inception. it all boils down to when you feel life starts.

No, it does not.  As long as you continue to lie and claim that things are as they aren't, you will continue to be shat upon.

I believe the book you so highly admire says that you reap what you do sow.  If you don't like what you're getting back, maybe you should consider what it is you're throwing out there, instead of hoping to escape responsibility by putting the responsibility upon someone else, as you do with Christ.  Grow the fuck up, at the very least.  I've long past given up expecting you to be ethical, intelligent, or to possess a reading comprehension above that of a fourth grader.  All of these are your problems and not someone else's.  But you're too stupid and egotistical to have any of it.  And the combined result is a perfect storm which makes you a thoroughly despiccable person who has no right casting aspersions upon other people for minor failures, or their unwillingness to condone your clearly unacceptable behavior.

"Alex, I'll take why am I an asshole for $200."  

Now, fuck off you moronic, incompetent, and unethical wanker.

---

---

Bodily autonomy is rationalized ideological garbage.

You're welcome to believe that, if you so choose, but your doing so is likely itself rationalized ideological garbage.  You're not blessed with a particularly high level of personal insight, are you?

it also points out you can plant nothing but good seed and an enmy can come in the nigh to sow weeds along side your good seed. and at that point the good and bad will be seperated then.

[Brian37]

1.5 billion abortions since 1980, huh???

Good thing.


That' s 1. 5 billion unwanted mouths to feed that we don't have.


When you loudmouthed " pro- lifers," end hunger and starvation --- get back with us.....

Stay on topic stay on topic...


1.5 billion individual's blood on your hands via your ideology in your life time.

God kill a fraction of that in the way of murderers monsters and hybrids who's evil far exceeds anything we can currently do to each other.And he does so over the course of several millennia  

No wonder you hate God.. After the justification of the murder of 1.5 billion babies I too would see my self on the God hit list.

---

That's not a thing. Stop trying to make it a thing.

another pre ban warning or can I show you pictures of an actual procedure? or google late term or partial birth abortions. there are illustrations that show a clinical procedure to a sonogram that shows a baby inutro screaming and trying to get away from a suction tube ripping it apart. or click below and there you will find the net results of both

---

 https://www.pinterest.com/FreedomsAus/gr...n-victims/

---

---

Huh, forgot that females are solely responsible for the creation of offspring.


Nevermind a situation where she may've been raped.

Nevermind a situation where she can't afford the medical expenses from the pregnancy.

Nevermind a situation where her life or mental health may be at stake.


You are not pro-life, you are pro-birth. The statistics do not lie--criminalizing abortion DOES NOT decrease their rates, it increases the death rates of women who inevitably seek them out using unsafe methods, or go through with a risky pregnancy. Instead, push for easier access to contraceptives, better sex education, and a more stable economy--THAT will decrease abortion rates.

there are hundreds you exceptions represents next to the 10's of thousands of abortions already completed this year.

IF you want to speak intelligently and not just assume some wild number of people will have to have abortion because they are raped by uncle grand pa know you speak of 800 ish cases next to the 3.8 million who did since 1-1-19
http://www.numberofabortions.com/

You douche bags preach the exceptions to the rule as if the world is only made up of special cases when in fact the rule seems to be abortion is just a late stage form of birth control/manipulation.

---

Drich are you honest enough to answer my question?  You got a pinecone stuck in your ass again, didn't you? Rhetorical, I know you did.  Bless.

RAmen.

close, ever since the missues and I saw little niki (adam sandler joint)  we switched to pine APPLEs.

---

No, it does not.  As long as you continue to lie and claim that things are as they aren't, you will continue to be shat upon.

I believe the book you so highly admire says that you reap what you do sow.  If you don't like what you're getting back, maybe you should consider what it is you're throwing out there, instead of hoping to escape responsibility by putting the responsibility upon someone else, as you do with Christ.  Grow the fuck up, at the very least.  I've long past given up expecting you to be ethical, intelligent, or to possess a reading comprehension above that of a fourth grader.  All of these are your problems and not someone else's.  But you're too stupid and egotistical to have any of it.  And the combined result is a perfect storm which makes you a thoroughly despiccable person who has no right casting aspersions upon other people for minor failures, or their unwillingness to condone your clearly unacceptable behavior.

"Alex, I'll take why am I an asshole for $200."  

Now, fuck off you moronic, incompetent, and unethical wanker.

---

---

You're welcome to believe that, if you so choose, but your doing so is likely itself rationalized ideological garbage.  You're not blessed with a particularly high level of personal insight, are you?

it also points out you can plant nothing but good seed and an enmy can come in the nigh to sow weeds along side your good seed. and at that point the good and bad will be seperated then.

Do you even understand that the word "seed" even used in polytheism back then reflected their ignorance that male sperm was not a seed. Back then humans worldwide thought only the male was responsible for new life and the female was merely a deposit, like a field where you plant corn or rice.

The religions of all of antiquity worldwide were Patriarchal because men back then WORLDWIDE confused brawn as being better than nurture. Even in polytheism say of ancient Egypt and Rome and Greece, while they had female goddesses, the TOP HEAD GOD was always a male. Females in antiquity always took a back seat to men.

"Seed" is a bullshit word. Sperm, egg and DNA are factual modern knowledge and both sexes contribute the genes of the next generation EQUALLY.

[The Grand Nudger]

"God" is the one who put all the bay-bees in the meatgrinder, drich.  No sense in blaming the fellow inmates. In living memory, american christians - predominatly protestants of one stripe or another...good fine people, like yourself..referred to abortion as "the catholic issue". It just wasn't an issue to them. Purported abortifacients grew in our yards as ornamentals...and commercial solutions were advertised by mail. By the 20th century it's estimated that a quarter of all pregnancies were ended by what we would consider abortion, today..though it wasn't seen as such then - merely "regulating menses".

The truth of the matter is that the issue has become politically expedient for modern conservatism, an institution for which your religion has entirely sold it's soul...nothing more or less.

Christ gave up on christianity and became a neocon, or so we're told.

[downbeatplumb]

Making abortions illegal does not stop abortions, it kills women.