Evolution and Christianity and Salvation

[The Grand Nudger]

Thing is, it's -always- possible.  If there's some product you want that you can't get, start something up...I promise you somebody who knows how to grow it wishes that someone would pay them to grow it and is working at a call center right now after having lost the family farm.

Or...I suppose, we could resign ourselves to allowing multi-national bad actors to snap up all of that productive space for a song and then fuck with us when we go to purchase it's productivity. There's an abandoned parking lot where you live that could produce one of your not-possible things..right now. You could be the guy who makes it. What are you doing today? Do you work for yourself or someone else? What would you rather be doing?

[tackattack]

If I had a green thumb I'd be growing myself. I get all my herbs and nightshades from my neighbor 2 streets over after helping him rebuild his frames. I get my lemons, blackberry (for preserves) oranges and pecans from the neighborhood. I get my goat and some milk for cheese from a guy I go to church with that raises them. We drink A2 milk, there's not a lot of dairy around here. My gourds and succulents I get from the local farms. I try not to eat many legumes and seeds. Fish, boar and venison I get myself, I'm just out now. We do buy deli meats, beef and turkey from a local butcher. I buy turkey bacon though. We buy some bread for sammys but also make our own, so I buy my flour, salt and yeast. My neighbor has a chicken coup and we get eggs. I do buy chocolate and noodles and peanut butter, as I don't have a pasta maker or the time/space.

My diet is pretty locally sourced. It's the kids and wife with their ice cream, soy mik, and cereal, veggie chips, etc. that we usually shop for. Then there's my in-laws who live with us. That's a lost cuase

[The Grand Nudger]

I have  black thumb.  There's nothing that I -can't- kill.  Hooah!

How could you produce those things that you describe.  That's the holy grail of individual involvement......aside from just buying them. I see dairy and deep fried goods, is that all that's left? A solution presents itself.

You, personally, individually, need to start a facebook page for a very specific type of local business. You have money to spend, that you do spend, and I bet your neighbors spend the same money. Find someone to take that money. If you cant find anyone, -be- that someone. It'll work, you'll make money, doubt me today but get back to me tomorrow.

[tackattack]

I could produce those things, I'm not saying it's impossible , just impractical for me and where I'm at now in life. If I didn't have a job, I could buy a mill to make my own flour and. I'm all for helping the environment and do what I can in my life to create as little waste as I can, be responsible with the environment, energy consumption and what and why I buy. And I try and pass all that to my kids. We have a highway we adopt and police it when the cons aren't out there with the sheriff. It's certainly not the most I can contribute to assist in the solution, but I'm really just trying to not be part of the problem while doing what's important for my little sphere of influence, by educating and sacrificing what I can for a better societal good.

My point was everyone doing that won't solve the issue. I'm comfortable with my part, but that's just the point. Changing something big and complex isn't comfortable, it requires perseverance and sacrifice and knowledge. What I'm doing may help raise up more intelligent and civic minded environmentalist little geniuses that can solve the problem, but it's not directly to stop the polar ice caps from melting. It's not intentional enough or sacrificial enough, either. I don't have to burn coal for warmth luckily, but if I didn't would I burn trees? which is worse?

I think though your question does glimpse a solution. "How could you produce those things that you describe?" the answer is if you don't produce don't consume. Do more with less and lower your consumer needs in an egalitarian way. That I think is a step towards turning back some of the damage we can do as a species </2 cents>

[The Grand Nudger]

Doing that™ will solve the issue......and you absolutely can do that™.   Doing that™ will solve this issue, and will stop the ice-caps from melting (honestly who gives a fuck about some ice melting)?   

Don't tell me that you just advocated for some bullshit you aren't willing to do?  This is your leverage.  Grab the rudder? There is no such thing as being at a point or place in your life that you cant do or contribute to A because of B. Only that you would rather not. Only that it's inconvenient.

Everyone doing the inconvenient thing would mean that we didn't even have a problem to refer to. -and hey, maybe we cant get everyone on board, but is that your reason not to be? You don't have a point, Tack, you have excuses. Look....fwiw, so do I, but at least I can accept that they're my excuses. You just got through telling us that global warming doesn't make your two top dozen. Well...okay....but that's you.

It's yours, own it, don't waste time excusing it.

[tackattack]

No I completely agree they are excuses and it doesn't make my top 20 things to focus on. Everyone doing the inconvenient thing would mean that we at least have a shorter list of things to fix, I can agree with. I accept that some things I focus on could improve "that" as a side affect, but just like in programming we do the work based prioritized, concise, do-able tasks and sort out happy little ghost fixes in the release notes after some testing. I'm not advocating that it doesn't take everyone else's priority, to each their own, and I do think the conversations are worth having globally. It just seems ineffective, perfunctory or premature at this stage socially for me to invest more sacrifices than I do, personally. I'm not going to stop heating my home, or driving a fuel efficient car or boycott business that can't comply with EPA standard because those time efforts are being utilized by things higher in my priority list.

[The Grand Nudger]

I only seems ineffective because of people who don't put it in their top-ten...to say nothing of people who flatly deny that it's happening, that it's a thing.  

It already impacts regular peoples incomes.......

Who the fuck is telling you to stop heating your home...for example....? There's no solution to agw that includes "people should stop heating their homes"..what the actual fuck....?

[fredd bear]

I only seems ineffective because of people who don't put it in their top-ten...to say nothing of people who flatly deny that it's happening, that it's a thing.  

It already impacts regular peoples incomes.......

Who the fuck is telling you to stop heating your home...for example....?  There's no solution to agw that includes "people should stop heating their homes"..what the actual fuck....?

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It bemuses me that  a certain kind of Christians we get here also tend to be climate change deniers or are ready to dismiss it as relatively unimportant. Do you think it's part of the associated anti science and anti intellectualism of such people? (tacky perhaps not quite so much, but still dismissive)

I mean really, are these people so ignorant or just stupid? Man caused climate change is established science, and THE most important issue facing human beings. It doesn't matter to me you understand, I should be dead before the issue becomes seriously  inconvenient. (Bangladesh,Holland are underwater, coastal cities underwater, that kind of thing)---of course at the time, various religious groups will claim the disasters are God's punishment, like Noah's  flood. That YHWH is a prick ain't he.


I do what I can. I sort garbage for recycling, and use  only organic fertiliser on my garden. Meh

South Australia is "the driest state on the driest continent." A couple of years ago we had water rationing; Eg No use of hoses, water on gardens by bucket only, on alternant days.. My garden has mainly succulents and roses, which are drought tolerant. I have reduced my water use by half. Increased drought and rising mean temperatures are both results of climate change as I understand it.

Last year I had  5KW of solar panels installed. They reduced my overall power bill by over 1/3.

[Jehanne]

@Jehanne I didn't say never fixable. If you have can identify man-made global warming and have a solution for man-made global warming that's attainable in this generation, I'm all ears. My point was that perhaps raising conscientious, educated, invested and responsible generation of well mentally-balanced problem solvers would be a better set of goals for this generation. I'm not saying defer fixing it, it's a matter or do-able priority concise goal setting. If you can fix it great, how can I help?

Do NOT vote for Donald Trump in 2020!

[tackattack]

I want to do solar panels on my forever home, I'm renting now, I also want a rain water recollection system. To your point about me specifically.I'm all for a solution but complex problems require time investment just to start to solve, and that's after you collect data and can get consensus on the causes and a reasonable prediction of the outcome. I just find things like making sure children don't die unnecessarily, people are fed, lowering societal hate, making sure families stay together healthily, stopping terrorism, emotional and medical support for veterans and the disenfranchised, safety in schools, teaching critical thinking to the next generation, etc. those are just a few of the things that are way more important to me when I'm contemplating what to spend the next 20 years working to improve than taking plastic out of the ocean. It's an admirable cause but people are probably just going to put more in. You can't plant 2 million trees when they'll be cut down in 20 years for building homes for the new population. My focus is on helping people be better people, that should hopefully have a side effect of making them more environmentally conscience. There is such a wide disconnect though between a society of "I, me , mine" and "man this world is a dump because of us" I just think it's currently not a good short term sprint target.

Let's be honest. People can march, rally and have protest, but most do it for a feel good "I'm being a global citizen" feel good. Just like Christians protest at abortion clinics with their "We're morally superior and in a group" mentality. That's not where actual work gets done. I mean Boyan Slat was great, and adventurous, even though I think it's not a full solution and potentially could be more harm than good, at least that is obvious effort. I'll give him an A for effort, I give myself an E for effort in climate change. But I'm working on Bs and Cs on other things.

@Jehanne I didn't and I won't