Liam Neeson: Rape, Revenge, and Race Relations

[bennyboy]

?

I responded directly to you.  I would think that should be sufficient.  Would you like me to send you a special telegram next time, your Highness?

You respond directly to be members' posts by QUOTING them, Benny.
No one KNOWS that you replied to them unless they stay parked in the thread or happen upon your response at a later time.

It was pretty OBVIOUS who I was TALKING to, THENA.

If you are really upset about not being quoted by responses made directly after your posts, then I will try to remember that in your case, I should do so. Shall we make the whole thread about it, or move on?

[Athene]

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Nobody is denying that his feelings and actions 40 years ago were clearly racist.  And I don't think any sensible person would think you'd need to say that's what he was describing.

But to go from "someone had racist thoughts and ideas 40 years ago, and they mentioned them today" to "Liam Neeson is a fucking racist, and his career needs to end, and anybody who thinks otherwise is a white supremacist" is an oppressive response.

I suspect that he's still casually racist because he hasn't made any notable effort to acknowledge or examine the RACIST aspects of his shitty logic...only the violent ones.

Nor have I stated that his career needs to end; I simply expressed my lack of interest in patronizing his films after being made aware of his apparent unwillingness to address that aspect of the equation. As a black person, why in the hell would I want to PAY to sit through a movie starring a guy who's rather likely to still be quite racist, especially in considering that his film are generally re-hashed GARBAGE to start with?

Lmfao....I haven't written any studios or signed any petitions to BAN this dumb motherfucker from the film industry. If you and other folks want to see his movies, I honestly don't give a shit. Watch want you want. I'm perfectly cognizant of the fact that everyone who still wishes to enjoy Liam's work isn't automatically a "white supremacist. Plenty of folks just have remarkably poor taste in film. 

I'm sure as hell not obligated to support his projects, though. No one is.

[GrandizerII]

Nobody is denying that his feelings and actions 40 years ago were clearly racist. And I don't think any sensible person would think you'd need to say that's what he was describing.

That's not the point. The point is that the way he talked about the whole revenge thing initially, and the attempt at damage control later, was baffling and didn't have the intended effect that Liam thought it would have. Instead it just angered the black audience more because he didn't acknowledge the harmful effects of his thoughts on others nor did he apologize for his past racist urge to murder an innocent black man. Instead, he made it all about himself, about how he magnificently overcame this personal obstacle and (despite his confession) saying that he's not a racist instead of owning up to what he said and did and saying "I fucked up, what I did was racist and disgusting, I also realize now I caused a lot of pain with my words by disclosing my thoughts the way I did in public without considering the feelings of others, I'm sorry for that". This probably still would not have been satisfying enough, but it would've been a hell of a lot better a response to make than all his rationalizations and denials.

I am basing a lot of what I'm saying here on what black people themselves have remarked, by the way. I read their posts and comments and try to absorb what they're saying. So you could whine all you want about what white SJWs are saying, but black people themselves are saying this stuff before any other group, and at least we should consider what they have to say because they're the ones whose thoughts matter in this case.

But to go from "someone had racist thoughts and ideas 40 years ago, and they mentioned them today" to "Liam Neeson is a fucking racist, and his career needs to end, and anybody who thinks otherwise is a white supremacist" is an oppressive response.

Who's saying that exactly? It feels like you're strawmanning here.

Anyway, if people want to boycott the film because of what he said, so what? Do they not have the right to do so?

[bennyboy]

But to go from "someone had racist thoughts and ideas 40 years ago, and they mentioned them today" to "Liam Neeson is a fucking racist, and his career needs to end, and anybody who thinks otherwise is a white supremacist" is an oppressive response.

Who's saying that exactly? It feels like you're strawmanning here.

Anyway, if people want to boycott the film because of what he said, so what? Do they not have the right to do so?

No, these are comments I've read online, which is what I've been addressing. Your comments, overall, have been measured and sensible enough. I should have specified that nobody in this thread has said that he should lose his career.

[The Grand Nudger]

People say all kinds of shit online. People saying shit online isn't oppressive, or a pc culture run amok. It's the internet.

[bennyboy]

People say all kinds of shit online.  People saying shit online isn't oppressive, or a pc culture run amok.  It's the internet.

I'd say when the shite tends toward silencing someone or ending their career, and is based on nitwits getting triggered by a violation of their memes, then that it is.
This is a serious problem with the internet-- it's introduced the most complete democratic system that has ever existed; but it turns out that most people are idiots, and should probably not be allowed to speak as one.

[Rev. Rye]

On the one hand, I would like to point out the fracas that happened last summer over James Gunn which ended up costing his job working on Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 3 over internet hiveminds losing their minds over old Tweets he made that he was ashamed of.

On the other hand, I would also like to point out that Mike Cernovich isn't the one stoking these hiveminds, and Neeson does not work for Disney... except maybe if they get around to doing that film of The Silver Chair that's been in development Hell for years before Netflix reboots it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Disney makes a ton of decisions based on brand damage (real and potential).  That's the free market at work. Turns out that a company that turns out dimes by merchandising to children(s parents) doesn't want to be associated with pedophilia jokes.

Fox had a field day with that one. Cernovich actually did "stoke those hiveminds".

[EgoDeath]

This is why I opt out of these conversations early. 16 pages later and no one's really listening to one another or making any real progress in the conversation. It's as if people are more worried about having the last word than having a real discussion. Without naming names, some of you don't seem to be even reading what others are writing. This is all pointless. AF has spoken, most people feel the outrage wasn't justified.

[bennyboy]

This is why I opt out of these conversations early. 16 pages later and no one's really listening to one another or making any real progress in the conversation. It's as if people are more worried about having the last word than having a real discussion. Without naming names, some of you don't seem to be even reading what others are writing. This is all pointless. AF has spoken, most people feel the outrage wasn't justified.

I'm not sure it's that clear a consensus.  It seems to me that the initial weigh-in heavily favored moderation, but among those who really dug in their heels, it's kind of swinging toward the whole thing being racist, and Neeson having made a major error in judgment.

I feel intent matters much more than content.  Someone might be full-on racist but a nice guy.  Or someone might completely spew the nice-guy memes, but be a manipulative viper.  In the end, I'd almost go with a Biblical view-- it is malice itself which is the cancer.

Malice should be the thing most despised by us all-- the intent to hurt, and to do harm.  And I see plenty of that from the left-- a truly disgusting desire to end careers, to silence opposing thought by mob attack.  And the right-- well, real attacks with real guns, and real bodies hanging from trees-- don't think they get a pass.

Where malice is lacking, there should be a lot more tolerance.  If I'm unwilling to try and understand. . . what will be my reward for that behavior when I'm the one under the microscope?