Liam Neeson: Rape, Revenge, and Race Relations

[Shell B]

Let's please not pretend that there aren't a SJWs who are screaming fucking lunatics for no good reason.

[Athene]

The issue here is that you and like-minded individuals regard yourselves as the ideal standard/baseline norm, and therefore FEEL you should be entitled to a bit more freedom of expression than everybody else. That's precisely why you insist on trying to sell this alternate, fantasy world in which 'freedom of speech' means YOU guys get to talk and offend at will, and those who are offended/disagree are compelled to stay silent.

Absolutely not.  I would never compel anyone else to stay silent in general, though I might tell someone who I find annoying to stfu.  If the PC people are really thinking those thoughts, I want them out in the open where I can see them.  That I think they are screechy idiots has nothing to do with whether they should be allowed to speak.

I reserve the right, however, to point out that they are screechy idiots.

Okay, benny.

LMFAO....Let's just pretend that it hasn't been YOU who's spent this entire thread suggesting a "slippery slope" in which people FREELY calling out others in response to FREELY spoken horseshit is surely laying the groundwork Uncle Sam to storm in and deprive everyone of their constitutional rights and that you haven't been attempting to compel so-called PC SJWs to shut up for the sake of democracy.

...All while knowing goddamned well that you actually want is the freedom to offend without being offended.

Well sorry, Charlie, but you can't have that.

[The Grand Nudger]

-Shell

We don't have to.  Just as there's pop feminism there's pop social justice.  The universe is generous when it comes to providing us with a neverending parade of idiots, so they form a convenient core around which to build an alternate reality full of alternative facts.  

It's still a fact, in mere reality, that the alt reich manufactured the sjw narrative as we see it on social media.  Cultivated and nurtured it until it was more than just a few lunatics and blue haired teenagers yelling at the interwebs.  That these lunatics and blue haired sobbers amount to a clear and present danger to free speech and western democracy.  That they, and by extension all of social justice is a virtue signalling attempt to cover closeted bigotry....which, as they tell it, victimizes whites in an example of reverse racism.

There was an economic incentive for non supremacist outlets to cater to that content as it became a popular meme.  This had the effect of laundering those viewpoints and presenting them to a broader base than the readership of stormfront. I;d suggest that anyone who finds things like this interesting or wanted to know more -not- take my word for it, and look it up themselves. It's an interesting read - and considering that we're exactly the kind of outlet that gets used to launder and normalize these narratives, and exactly the demographic these narratives have been created for..it might be prudent to know them. Our country is kindof having a moment right now - trying to decide which of two paths it wants to go down.

[bennyboy]

Okay, benny.

LMFAO....Let's just pretend that it hasn't been YOU who's spent this entire thread suggesting a "slippery slope" in which people FREELY calling out others in response to FREELY spoken horseshit is surely laying the groundwork Uncle Sam to storm in and deprive everyone of their constitutional rights and that you haven't been attempting to compel so-called PC SJWs to shut up for the sake of democracy.

...All while knowing goddamned well that you actually want is the freedom to offend without being offended.

Well sorry, Charlie, but you can't have that.

I don't get the Charlie reference. Is it insulting?

That I think SJWs are screechy nitwits, and would like them to stfu and listen to reason, is not the same thing as wanting them silenced.  The only consequence I have in mind for them is to tell  them what I think of their hysterical posturing.  The consequence they have in mind is often the loss of a position or the permanent destruction of someone's reputation. It's mob rule, and it's ugly.

Understand the difference, here, because it's an important one.  It is my position that extremists on both wings, being the loudest, dominate the airspace, making rational conversation impossible.  I'd like the more rational leftists and rightists to dominate the air space.  I'd give Shell, for example, as an example of a person who will tolerate contrary positions, express her own concisely and (mostly) without insult, and will get listened to; with her quieter words, she has 1000x more chance of swaying my views on things than you do.

I'd categorize yours as being so excessively hostile and screechy that it's unlikely ever to persuade.

I'd categorize many of my own posts as being hostile, as well, because people don't like words like "screechy," and obviously I know that.  However, I consider myself left of center, and I think the hysterical left have damaged the brand so goddamned badly that they've spawned the orange-haired antichrist.

Seriously, if the goal of any particular subset of society had it as their goal to guarantee that the Dems never win an election again, it's the PC left.

---

Let's please not pretend that there aren't a SJWs who are screaming fucking lunatics for no good reason.

Could you rephrase this?  I don't exactly understand what you're saying.  Are you saying that people end up shouting because of justifiable outrage?

If so, like in the case of black people who are enraged when another cop kills another black kid, I wouldn't categorize them as SJWs at all.

[GrandizerII]

It's called frustration at a white man's lack of understanding and gall to act like he is qualified to lecture people of color about racism, benny. It's easy for a privileged person to remain relatively calm and appear less "hostile" compared to someone who has faced oppression and obstacles because of their own skin color (and gender, as well).

That said, "screechiness" is more your perception than it seems reality here.

[bennyboy]

Fun fact, sjw hysteria was actively manufactured by the alt reich and disseminated on every social media platform for it's noted ability to serve as an alt-lite gateway to what they call normies.  People who would reject their arguments and framing if the identified white supremacist theme was blatantly overt.  The general notion appears to be that since the narrative of victimization works (the alt reich is certain that what other people call racism is just a false victimization narrative), it's a tool that they could use to frame opposition to their ideology as hypocritical in any number of ways.

SJW hysteria doesn't need to be manufactured.  It's writ large all over internet comments, all over Youtube, and right here in these threads.

Now, if you want to say that SJW hysteria isn't typical of the PC left as a whole, or of the left as a whole, then fair enough.  I know there are moderates who can intelligently argue the points of the left-- I consider myself one of them.  I can explain to Republicans, for example, why I think releasing prisoners or improving schools in black areas will lead to an increased GDP and more pie for all, and allow for a reduction in government.  I can explain why health care might be expected to reduce crime rates.

---

It's called frustration at a white man's lack of understanding and gall to act like he is qualified to lecture people of color about racism, benny. It's easy for a privileged person to remain relatively calm and appear less "hostile" compared to someone who has faced oppression and obstacles because of their own skin color (and gender, as well).

That said, "screechiness" is more your perception than it seems reality here.

I don't think so.  Take Athena's entrance into this thread.  She was typing in ALL-CAPS, because it's TEXT and she can't actually SCREECH, so she had to SIMULATE screeching.

Please understand, Grandizer, that this is not an umbrella term for the left that I'm using.  I don't apply it to you, for example.  But people like you aren't the reason Trump is going to get re-elected.

I want the democrats to win.  I think the immoderate and intolerant far-left is likely to prevent that from happening.  I want the left represented by people like you and Shell, or by Sam Harris, or by Stephen Colbert, rather than those who express themselves like Athena and Khem or Bill Maher do.  If moderate voices prevail, then there's a much better chance for the compromises and common ground that democracy is meant to foster.

I'll give you a perfect example: Dave Chappelle's bit about the last election-- he joked about knowing right away Trump was going to win when he showed up to vote, and he saw a bunch of tractors and stuff in the parking lot.  But he also said: "You know what I didn't see?  I didn't see any Deplorables."  That kind of understanding is the right way, in my view.

[Yonadav]

Fun fact, sjw hysteria was actively manufactured by the alt reich and disseminated on every social media platform for it's noted ability to serve as an alt-lite gateway to what they call normies.  People who would reject their arguments and framing if the identified white supremacist theme was blatantly overt.  The general notion appears to be that since the narrative of victimization works (the alt reich is certain that what other people call racism is just a false victimization narrative), it's a tool that they could use to frame opposition to their ideology as hypocritical in any number of ways.

SJW hysteria doesn't need to be manufactured.  It's writ large all over internet comments, all over Youtube, and right here in these threads.

Now, if you want to say that SJW hysteria isn't typical of the PC left as a whole, or of the left as a whole, then fair enough.  I know there are moderates who can intelligently argue the points of the left-- I consider myself one of them.  I can explain to Republicans, for example, why I think releasing prisoners or improving schools in black areas will lead to an increased GDP and more pie for all, and allow for a reduction in government.  I can explain why health care might be expected to reduce crime rates.

---

It's called frustration at a white man's lack of understanding and gall to act like he is qualified to lecture people of color about racism, benny. It's easy for a privileged person to remain relatively calm and appear less "hostile" compared to someone who has faced oppression and obstacles because of their own skin color (and gender, as well).

That said, "screechiness" is more your perception than it seems reality here.

I don't think so.  Take Athena's entrance into this thread.  She was typing in ALL-CAPS, because it's TEXT and she can't actually SCREECH, so she had to SIMULATE screeching.

Please understand, Grandizer, that this is not an umbrella term for the left that I'm using.  I don't apply it to you, for example.  But people like you aren't the reason Trump is going to get re-elected.

I want the democrats to win.  I think the immoderate and intolerant far-left is likely to prevent that from happening.  I want the left represented by people like you and Shell, or by Sam Harris, or by Stephen Colbert, rather than those who express themselves like Athena and Khem or Bill Maher do.  If moderate voices prevail, then there's a much better chance for the compromises and common ground that democracy is meant to foster.

I'll give you a perfect example: Dave Chappelle's bit about the last election-- he joked about knowing right away Trump was going to win when he showed up to vote, and he saw a bunch of tractors and stuff in the parking lot.  But he also said: "You know what I didn't see?  I didn't see any Deplorables."  That kind of understanding is the right way, in my view.

Skreetchy SJWs know how much they have to do with putting Trump in office. They don't accept responsibility for it. But they know. They seem to be perversely proud of it. In Jewish circles, we have some assholes that like to go around provoking non-Jews until the non-Jew gets angry and says something that sounds maybe a bit antisemitic. And then these assholes are all happy about having provoked someone into sort of hating Jews a little bit. I see something similar going on with the SJWs. I think everyone sees it.

[Athene]

That I think SJWs are screechy nitwits, and would like them to stfu and listen to reason, is not the same thing as wanting them silenced.  The only consequence I have in mind for them is to tell  them what I think of their hysterical posturing.  The consequence they have in mind is often the loss of a position or the permanent destruction of someone's reputation.  It's mob rule, and it's ugly.

Understand the difference, here, because it's an important one.  It is my position that extremists on both wings, being the loudest, dominate the airspace, making rational conversation impossible.  I'd like the more rational leftists and rightists to dominate the air space.  I'd give Shell, for example, as an example of a person who will tolerate contrary positions, express her own concisely and (mostly) without insult, and will get listened to; with her quieter words, she has 1000x more chance of swaying my views on things than you do.

I'd categorize yours as being so excessively hostile and screechy that it's unlikely ever to persuade.

I'd categorize many of my own posts as being hostile, as well, because people don't like words like "screechy," and obviously I know that.  However, I consider myself left of center, and I think the hysterical left have damaged the brand so goddamned badly that they've spawned the orange-haired antichrist.

Seriously, if the goal of any particular subset of society had it as their goal to guarantee that the Dems never win an election again, it's the PC left.

What makes you think I'm attempting to win hearts and minds here?  

We may have similar political views but I have no interest in persuading you to become my "ally". An ally that demands my silence is not an ally at all, as far as I'm concerned. As I mentioned earlier in this thread; I don't believe that most adults are actually capable of divorcing themselves from their -isms, so I make no particular effort to sway folks like you to my side. 
I save my gentler, more persuasive tactics for when and where it's likely to make a difference. As for folks like you...brutal honesty, disdain and a touch of mockery here and there is about all you're going to get. As lost causes, you simply don't warrant more than that.


ETA: I capitalize a FEW words within my posts to place emphasis on those particular words, and I don't necessarily like the way they look of italics. If it was meant to denote yelling or screeching the MAJORITY of my post would be in all caps instead of the reverse. That nothing accusation is just you clinging to any excuse to dismiss any and all of my salient and reasonable points as "SJW screeching".

Pretty pathetic, IMO, but if it comforts you to pretend that I'm screaming at you, then oh well....Go for it.

[GrandizerII]

I'll give you a perfect example: Dave Chappelle's bit about the last election-- he joked about knowing right away Trump was going to win when he showed up to vote, and he saw a bunch of tractors and stuff in the parking lot.  But he also said: "You know what I didn't see?  I didn't see any Deplorables."  That kind of understanding is the right way, in my view.

Well, I don't think of poor white people and/or Trump supporters as "deplorables" either, unless they spout some blatant racist shit such as "we have to tolerate black people here". For me, the real deplorables are some of those among the top in terms of wealth and power,; they're the ones fucking us all up at the end. So I agree with Chappelle 100% here. And I'm pretty sure the others you have been conversing with agree as well.

But let me be clear here once again about something that can't be overemphasized, and I say this based on my interactions with you over several threads of this sort. I have never once argued that white people who are poor are not struggling and not suffering various obstacles in life that the other classes have not had to face. I think it's horrible that, again and again, we see extremely large disparities in income and wealth between the poor and the rich. It's why I was an avid supporter of Bernie back in 2016, and still to this day agree with his economic policies (I also agree with his policies when it comes to social justice issues, such as the need to fix the gender pay gap).

So whenever I have said poor white people as well have white privilege, you always need to keep in mind I'm applying that term rather passively to them. They certainly don't have wealth privilege or any really obvious privilege of the sort. The privilege they do have is a passive [and potentially active] one, in the sense that the perceived color of their skin never gets in the way of them achieving their goals. They face many many obstacles for sure, but skin color is not one of them (and skin color is a major one when it is an obstacle, unfortunately). So when you happen to be poor AND also of color, the issues compound.

And I say all this as someone who comes from a Middle Eastern background. I am not exactly considered a white person. If anything, I am more whitish, but even then I acknowledge I am privileged in at least a couple of ways. I am certainly of male gender, not transgendered, heterosexual, and ... if that counts at all, of good looks. Even with my quirks and all that, I've noted how other people treat me compared to how they treat (say) Indian people coming from overseas to work in the same company I work at. And yet, naturally, I used to have the same mindset I see some of you having. I remember the times people of color would exclaim about how white people are privileged and I would get triggered that they would even say such a thing, considering I personally never clearly felt that privilege. And when feminists criticized the patriarchy, I used to take it personal and think they were attacking me for being a man. It's only like a few years ago (in fact, sometime shortly before I registered in this forum) that I began to seriously read about these topics and listen to what people of color and what women themselves have to say about these issues. Once it got to that point, I no longer saw them as screeching feminists or SJWs or whatever, but I saw human beings who really struggled with various obstacles in their lives that we never have to face, and they were really frustrated that they weren't being listened to or that we seem to be more likely to sympathize with assholes in MRA and/or white supremacy groups than we do with them. It also doesn't help that we have shitty videos all over YouTube by white men and boys making fun of women and people of color for talking about their experiences in passionate and emotional ways or making controversial points that are actually quite reasonable but seen negatively by these uploaders.

I guess there is this feeling of offense in us white/whitish men that, when we're told we have privilege or told we have implicit biases that may be racist or sexist, we don't naturally take the time to seriously consider this because (even though we don't all understand exactly what is being said) we don't often imagine ourselves to be that bad. And this is a psychological thing that one cannot really help. Most of us do like to think that we're really really good people who've worked hard to get to where we are (which may very well be the case), but we tend to always miss the point by thinking so. So we lash out and we say things like "but if you knew me, you'd know there's no way I'm racist or sexist or privileged" or "racism is there but it's not as bad as you make it out to be, stop with the conspiracy nonsense" while disregarding the experiences that these other people have had to face. They call this white anxiety, or as an expert puts it, "white fragility".

So yeah, I fully agree with Chappelle there, but I think that brief video does not give you the full picture of what he would've said if he had more time.

[Athene]

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