[Serious] fact finding mission for non-Christians

[Yonadav]

1-- Jesus was almost certainly not a Jewish guy. If he had been a Jewish guy, Herod would have tried and sentenced him. We have a very clear method of testing those who claim to know G-d's will. Every single person who fails the test is executed immediately. Passing the test is impossible unless you really do know the will of G-d. For this reason, Jews simply don't go around claiming to be prophets since we know that we can't pass the test and immediate execution is the penalty for failing it in a Jewish land with a Jewish king.

2-- A deity can't cleanse you of your transgressions. You can only atone for them by acknowledging them, doing what you can to repair the harm done with them, apologizing to those whom you hurt and asking for their forgiveness, and resolving to not do the transgressions anymore. G-d Himself can't cleanse you of any transgressions that you haven't actively accepted responsibility for and tried to make right.

3-- Belief in a deity isn't a choice. One either believes or they don't. They can't make themselves believe. They can't make themselves disbelieve. Belief waxes and wanes. Trying to get people to say that they believe is silly.

[Anomalocaris]

I've never actually met a Christian.

But you’ve met many who are made in the exact image of the Christian god: vain, power hungry, thirsty for adulation, controlling, vindictive, deceitful.

[Brian37]

I'd like christians to apply logic, reason and science to their religion/the bible in much the same way that they apply it to their every day life.

If christians allow one type of supernatural to exist in reality then they should allow every type of supernatural to exist and consider it real.

Why does a god need apologetic's?

The Greek word "apology" isn't about finding facts, but merely how to appeal to someone.

"Apology" in religion is the same, not a factual argument, but a sales pitch. And every religion has followers who make apologies for their beliefs.

[Sal]

• Evolution is both theory and fact. Theory in explaining the fossil record and fact in observed changes in the fossil record, and other stuff too.
  

• It is more likely that all religions are false, than one being true. Although such probability is hardly convincing for the True Believer™, it is something that should give believers pause and at least re-examine their beliefs, and compare them to other beliefs. But who am I kidding, not gonna happen.
  

• We're animals, smart animals, sure, but animals nonetheless. We're not the pinnacle of evolution, just a branch of the evolutionary history, apart from all the other lifeforms on this planet. We're not intrinsically special, we're just smart enough (well some of us anyway) to see our place in this world as part of the natural order of things.
  

[Losty]

Hmm top 3 things I want Christians to know...disclaimer: I decided to forgo super facty facts for more opiniony facts because I really wanted to focus on the most important message I would like to get across to Christians. I know this may not be exactly what the thread had in mind, but I don’t really have any interest in trying to prove anyone’s religion wrong or promoting the lack of belief in god. I think proselytizing atheism is pretty silly. Anywho:

1. While religion can certainly be a breeding ground for great people, you don’t have to be a Christian or religious at all to be a good person.

2. It is never acceptable to use your religion as an excuse to cause harm.

3. Tacos do not have cheese or sour cream.

[900ft j]

top 3 things they would like to explain to Christians. It can be top three reasons God doesn't exist. It can be top three reasons the Bible is wrong. The top three reasons Religion is bad for society. etc. ad nauseum. 

I like this question. It invites understanding through common ground.

1. We are naturally evolved beings, not the design of a god. This matters to our self-esteem and self-actualization because we cannot take charge of ourselves, our future, the future of our species if we do not recognize our innate nature. We are not born bad, needing a higher power to teach us the difference between right and wrong. It makes me very sad that some people go through life carrying the guilt of a sin they never committed, that they are all tainted by actions and designs of a higher power who blames them for being imperfect and sinful. I have children (as I believe you do) and they are born with a moral sense from which they build moral values. It is terrible to make people believe they are prone to do bad unless some higher power can set rules enforced by punishment and reward. far better to understand we have a moral sense, develop values accordingly, and do right because it is right to do so, not out of fear or hope of reward.

2. Be fearless and honest in your quest for truth and apply systems of logic, analysis, proof equally despite a desire to prove what you wish to be, or hope to be true. Do not shy away from contradictions or questions that make you uncomfortable. t is belief despite evidence.

3. Please do not twist logic to justify terrible things done in the name of religion in order to defend religious beliefs. The Christian Bible is full of atrocious laws - stoning women, killing homosexuals, owning slaves...don't claim it's God's law yet dance around the problematic parts, trying to explain them away by re-interpreting what you claim is God's word, or saying while God is unchanging, somehow those laws have changed. You can't claim a book as the unarguable basis of your religion, of God's laws, then pick and choose or change meanings as parts of the book are shown over time to be contradictory, unsupported, cruel, entirely not in keeping with what we have learned since it was written.

(I have more!

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

1.  Non-believers aren't necessarily bad people.

2.  Belief isn't enough to make you a good person, and may even be a detriment.

3.  Freedom of religion (going in all directions) is absolutely essential in a functioning democracy.

(Terrific topic, btw)

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

Rather than explain anything, how about an actual fact finding excursion?

1. Under what auspices and by what schema do we assert that it is immoral to profit off the suffering of others and can this be reconciled with an insisted necessity of christ's crucifixion?  At what point in the development of christianity did the definitive word on this come down, from whom, and were there notable outliers? 

2. Of what civic value is the proffering of religious opinion in the act of governance?  What, if anything, has changed in the inevitable secularization of government since the reformation and counter-reformation?  Is there any reason today to take a stance different than the devoutly christian Hollanders (as one of many examples) who resolved to lay religion aside as an aspect of individual rather than public or economic life?

3.  As an aspect of individual life, to what interpersonal or familial end is christianity in specific leveraged? What will it achieve?

I like these three. They approach the fundamental validity and suitability of the claim. The value of it's employment in the current organization of societies, and the private aims of individual believers without so much as skimming christianity as a means or for a consideration of truth value. Each one simply accepts that some claim is true and that christianity is capable of producing some effect.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I've never actually met a Christian.

But you’ve met many who are made in the exact image of the Christian god: vain, power hungry, thirsty for adulation, controlling, vindictive, deceitful.

Well, yeah, if you put it that way...

[unsapien]

1- I would have to lower the quality of evidence (that I would accept) so low in order to even consider the possibility of the Christian god being real that I would then have to accept all the gods I've ever heard of as also being real.

2- I don't care if your god is real or not, I couldn't be Christian even if it turns out he is real... or Jewish or Muslim for that matter. (HU would be okay though I guess)

3- I can't think of a 3rd thing.