Do you wish there's a god?

[The Grand Nudger]

I'll put it this way. The reason I am firmly convinced about the truth of the Gospel, is not because of some peculiar theology, some Sunday school lesson, any sort of active effort to teach or force  me to believe x things about the bible, etc... But in seeing the Gospel, Christ embodied in the life of my friends, in my mother.

The definition of a free rider. This "christ" nonsense hasn't earned the value you place - your mommy did, it just siphoned it off.

Hilariously, this parasitic relationship has lead to you being here as you are.

[Acrobat]

I don't have to brainwash my kids at all. They'll know the truth, not based on something I tell them, but based on what's shown, and cannot be said. Hopefully as evident in my life, my wife's life, my communities life for them, as it was for me.

Yeah, as if your kids being surrounded by many adult authority figures, that all believe in the same unevidenced, irrational beliefs, does not have any indoctrinating effect on them.

Sunday church, Bible study, Christian youth camp, etc... No indoctrination there, nope.

Sorry, but I've been there. You may not believe you are brainwashing your kids, but that doesn't change the fact.

So if you and your wife are atheist, and you children know what your beliefs are. If you're part of your local humanist group, perhaps let your children attend a humanist youth camp. If most of your friends are unbelievers as well, and share your over all worldview.

Do you consider this brainwashing?

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

Uhm.... that's a rather vague statement there Acrobat.

What sort of things mighf they be shown?

I'm a tad interested on/with this talk of 'See diety' stuff m'self.

Cheers.

I'll put it this way. The reason I am firmly convinced about the truth of the Gospel, is not because of some peculiar theology, some Sunday school lesson, any sort of active effort to teach or force  me to believe x things about the bible, etc... But in seeing the Gospel, Christ embodied in the life of my friends, in my mother. Whats mere words on a page, is given life in them, the grace of god upon their life.

Not even the best articulation of what I mean by this, could convey what this life means, particularly for those who have not seen it, or partook in such a life, or broke bread at a table with it. And I imagine for unbelievers, it's no less clear what I mean here, than before you asked. Because as I said, it's not something said, or heard, but something shown. 

"I am the way, the truth, and the life". One has to see that, to believe that. I see this, and as result I believe this.

Thank you for your reply.

So, I must admit from reading your response, from this side of the screen I get the impression of 'See all these good things. Therefore diety.'

I appologize that my paraphrasing is crude but my windows for replying are often brief.

To follow on from my poor crudness. Why then are not the bad things also lain at the diety's extremities?

Mind you. A breif outline or referance to what it is you think/believe your diety is/consists of/has attributes of will/would also help our mutual understanding of your position.

Cheers.

[Acrobat]

I don't have to brainwash my kids at all. They'll know the truth, not based on something I tell them, but based on what's shown, and cannot be said. Hopefully as evident in my life, my wife's life, my communities life for them, as it was for me.

Yeah, as if your kids being surrounded by many adult authority figures, that all believe in the same unevidenced, irrational beliefs, does not have any indoctrinating effect on them.

Sunday church, Bible study, Christian youth camp, etc... No indoctrination there, nope.

Sorry, but I've been there. You may not believe you are brainwashing your kids, but that doesn't change the fact.

I don't see myself as an authority on truth. I see truth as it's own authority. Brainwashing usually requires some type of isolation from other views, fear of information that might undue that brainwashing. Yet the world they occupy, is not isolated in such a way, in school, college, from friends who don't share their religious beliefs, etc... They'll occupy a life exposed to all sorts of views, and I don't find any of that a threat. 

I have no anxiety or fear of those things for them, anymore so than I do for myself. Clearly I exist in an atheist forum of all places, where people strongly disagree with my religious belief, lol, as well as read works by unbelievers, and religious folks who don't share my views. 

I no more need to tell them they need to believe that Christianity is true, because I say it's true, than I need to tell them the sun exists, for them to believe in the Sun. I don't see myself tasked with forcing them to believe what I believe, but in showing them that which I see. And that which is seen, they can recognize as the truth itself. Just all I have to do is show them the sun, to know the sun exists.

[Macoleco]

No. It would infinitely devalue humans. What is the point of discovering the wonders of the universe if there is a God who knows it all? What point would anything have?

[Acrobat]

Thank you for your reply.

So, I must admit  from reading your response, from this side of the screen I get the impression of 'See all these good things.  Therefore diety.'

I appologize that my paraphrasing is crude but my windows for replying are often brief.

No, it's not seeing one thing, and inferring something from that one thing. It's all just One thing. I want them to see just one thing. And it's not even good things, or actions, or deeds, but "being". The essence of a sort of life, not necessary the fruits or actions and deeds that stem from them, or else they confuse the fruits with the tree.

[LostLocke]

I'll put it this way. The reason I am firmly convinced about the truth of the Gospel, is not because of some peculiar theology, some Sunday school lesson, any sort of active effort to teach or force  me to believe x things about the bible, etc... But in seeing the Gospel, Christ embodied in the life of my friends, in my mother.

So if that's all that's required for "truth", then anyone who has the same experience with any other deity (as in the non-Abrahamic versions) is also totally justified in believing they also know the "truth".

[Acrobat]

I'll put it this way. The reason I am firmly convinced about the truth of the Gospel, is not because of some peculiar theology, some Sunday school lesson, any sort of active effort to teach or force  me to believe x things about the bible, etc... But in seeing the Gospel, Christ embodied in the life of my friends, in my mother.

So if that's all that's required for "truth", then anyone who has the same experience with any other deity (as in the non-Abrahamic versions) is also totally justified in believing they also know the "truth".

I'm not really talk about some sort of momentary religious or spiritual experience, but in the partaking of everyday life. And I think other religions, at their best reveals the outlines of such a life, but Christ reveals it in its fullness.

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

No, it's not seeing one thing, and inferring something from that one thing. It's all just One thing. I want them to see just one thing. And it's not even good things, or actions, or deeds, but "being". The essence of a sort of life, not necessary the fruits or actions and deeds that stem from them, or else they confuse the fruits with the tree.

That's very poetic and nice.

It's also, shall we say, very subjective?

That you feel your diety is great for you. As well as, by extension, those who also feel... Or say they feel... thd same as you.

But our 'Feels', other than the biology in our heads, don't really have an impact on reality around us.

We can not push the clouds with our minds.

[Foxaèr]

The stupidest thing I've recently seen from theists is that they misguidedly appeal to our atheism by stating "it's not about religion", but then in full on ignorance follow it up with something as inane as "God in all his glory".