trump announces his bid for reelection!

[Shell B]

How is not surprising that a Trump supporter believes Nazis hated Jews because Jews lost all their money or whatever bs those walls of text were selling?

[Drich]

don't buy into the new narrative. 

There was a reason national socialist workers party took hold in germany, you need not look any further than the promises of free education, free health care a free home and car for every family and heavy taxes for the rich and heavy industry to pay for it all.. not to mention the public works the government used bring it self out of a deep finical depression, people voted for socialism and yes over time it turned into a fascist regime because pure socialist views can not sustain itself. history bears this out time and again.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_S...st_Program

#1 People voted for socialism
The last free election in November 1932 resulted in 33% for NSDAP, losing 4% compared to the previous election

#2 National socialist program: 14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
Too bad actually the opposite happened: Trickle down economy with the regime feeding heavy industry with state funded re-armament. In effect Krupp, Thyssen and Quandt made fortunes 1933-45. Hitler didnt take money from Krupp, he didnt call him to Berlin to dictate whatever to him, he paid him visit in his villa Hügel, a favour not even Chamberlain experienced whom he made take his first flight ever to the most possible remote part of germany. In the pic below Hitler does not seem to take money from the older Krupp guy if you ask me.


Socialism in the nazi dictatorship was a pretty mixed bag:
On one hand socialist actions like KdF were taken, but only to make people comtempt with war plans. You cant wage war without a happy and fit population. You need them to die for you. On the other hand worker unions were destroyed and wages *frozen*. The real wage (wage corrected for inflation) did not rise at all after 1933, giving the average german not more moey to buy than before. Taxation policy was also not particularly socialistic. Taxes were raised in general for everybody, in order to pay off the massive governmental spendings, not in public welfare or consumer goods (there was nothing to buy for Joe Average and all money went to the bank, which in return could be used to lend it to the government in order to ...... buy more weapons).

What ruined the german economy and what made it necessary to exploit the jewish wealth (and ultimately foreign victim nations) was not socialism, but the rearmament plan that enriched the already rich. By 1938 the military budget reached 20% of GDP (in 1932 it was 1%). For comparison: in 2016 the US military budget was a whopping 3%! Imagine the US spending 7-8 times what it currently spends on military, and then make a guess which is the biggest burden for your overall budget. 


What can be learned from the nazi era mostly is that you are in a death spiral if you rely on military spendings in order to provide you (foreign) funds for your governmental budget.
What can be learned is that having a military and industrial complex, even losing a war and everybody having to start from scratch, most of the tycoons (like Krupp and Quandt) do not, a lesson that hurt germans most after 1945.

The "nationalsocialism=socialism=bad" tripe is a gross overimplification and equivocation, doing the real nazi ideology and its iffy details no justice. If you want to know who profited most from this time, you have to look after 1945. (War) profiteers´ names usually arent "Joe Average".

what are the key differences in what you think my position is on nazi socialism and what you said here?

[The Grand Nudger]

I think that it's incredible that what thinking for yourself has lead to is the incessant repetition of another mans pointless lies and fixations about his crowd sizes.

[Deesse23]

what are the key differences in what you think my position is on nazi socialism and what you said here?

You didnt read my post?
Its in right there.

tl;dr (especially for you):
#1 Hitler didnt go after the jews after he spent all the money from the rich people in order to feed his socialist agenda.
#2 Hitler didnt spend money of the rich at all, he enriched them.
#3 He was after the jews form the get go, and that had nothing to do with socialism but antisemitism and ultranationalism.
#4 He also wasnt a socialist, some of his top brass were (and many of those were sidelined like Hess or killed like Röhm).

#5 finally: What ruined german economy wasnt socialism, but military budget being 20% of GDP.

[Rev. Rye]

Here's the 25 points of the intial NSDAP platform from 1920. I'll bold the parts that don't add up with the socialism narrative:

1. We demand the unification of all Germans in the Greater Germany on the basis of the right of self-determination of peoples. Notice that this doesn't explain what would happen if the people self-determined they didn't want to be part of the Greater Germany

2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in respect to the other nations; abrogation of the peace treaties of Versailles and St. Germain.

3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people, and colonization for our surplus population. Sounds a lot closer to imperialism than socialism

4. Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently no Jew can be a member of the race. Sounds a lot closer to the Ethnostate idea that the alt-righters have been agitating for than any socialism.

5. Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest, and must be under the authority of legislation for foreigners.

6. The right to determine matters concerning administration and law belongs only to the citizen. Therefore we demand that every public office, of any sort whatsoever, whether in the Reich, the county or municipality, be filled only by citizens. We combat the corrupting parliamentary economy, office-holding only according to party inclinations without consideration of character or abilities. Sounds good in theory, (at least if you ignore the previous two points) but bear in mind that a few months after taking power, they were doing more or less that same thing

7. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.

8. Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since the 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich. Sounds a lot like Trump, dunnit?

9. All citizens must have equal rights and obligations. Might seem socialist on the surface, but look back to the previous five or so points.

10. The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all Consequently we demand:

11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.

12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

16. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

17. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.

18. We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, Schieber and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.

19. We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.

20. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.

21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.

22. We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.

23. We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that: a. All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race: b. Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the State to be published. They may not be printed in the German language: c. Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications, or any influence on them, and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands. Who in this day and age has been harping about "fake news" for years and has even gone so far as to call them "Enemies of the People"?

24. We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: common utility precedes individual utility.

25. For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.

Adolf Hitler proclaimed the following explanation for this program on the 13 April 1928:

Explanation

Regarding the false interpretations of Point 17 of the program of the NSDAP on the part of our opponents, the following definition is necessary:

"Since the NSDAP stands on the platform of private ownership it happens that the passage" gratuitous expropriation concerns only the creation of legal opportunities to expropriate if necessary, land which has been illegally acquired or is not administered from the view-point of the national welfare. This is directed primarily against the Jewish land-speculation companies.

Notice how many of these points actually seem closer to Trump than any actual socialists, especially the Bernie Sanders types. And in case you didn't notice it, it didn't morph into dictorship because they tried pure socialism and found it unworkable. That was always the plan from Day one, and if the previous 24 points weren't enough to explain it, #25 made it exceedingly plain.

[Drich]

How is not surprising that a Trump supporter believes Nazis hated Jews because Jews lost all their money or whatever bs those walls of text were selling?

  Ah.. no.

The National socialist put white germans first. their whole socialist agenda centered around aryan germans. Jews where hated because they where blamed for the sanctions/reparations Germany had to pay for the damage done in WWI. The jews where in charge of the banks and they levied high interest and brutal terms which impoverished the whole country. So the jews where blamed/stabbed the german people in the back. when socialism came in they targeted the jews and took their material goods and placed them in ghettos and work camps. then extermination camps as the war progressed and the germans continued to take more and more land containing jews through out the eurpean campaign, the displaced millions seizing the homes and lands in the name of aryan socialism.

The Great war and German Defeat -- the rise of Nazism:

Their defeat in World War I gravely accelerated anti-Semitism among the German people. Many German writers and public figures (encouraged by the German Army General staff) explained the defeat with the "stab in the back" argument -- that Jews and communists had undermined morale at home when the army was still winning the fight in the field. This was of course far from the truth, for the German army was collapsing by November 1918 and much of the navy was already in mutiny. But thousands of Germans, unwilling to believe that defeat was inevitable after 1917, accepted the argument.

No person embraced the stab-in-the-back thesis with more enthusiasm than Adolf Hitler.

"...if the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the Bolshevizing of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe."

Adolf Hitler, Speech to the Reichstag, January 30, 1939.

http://web.mnstate.edu/shoptaug/AntiFrames.htm

[Deesse23]

I think that it's incredible that what thinking for yourself has lead to is the incessant repetition of another mans pointless lies and fixations about his crowd sizes.

I think it has more to do with the fact that some people believe what they want to believe. Confirmation bias to the extreme.
Trump hasnt made people hateful and bigoted, he has made it socially acceptable to be hateful and bigoted, and so they keep crawling from under the rocks they were hiding for decades, because....quod licet iovi haec licet bovi.

[Rev. Rye]

there may be 1000 people pictured here sport..

Trump had 20,000 inside, and another 15,000 outside where they set up monitors and had a live band. they shut down 1/2 a city for almost a 24 hour period people waited DAYS in line to get in...

You are comparing apples to oranges.

Not only that you forgot in the DNC popular vote does not count for anything. what do I men? each voting district had a delegate who is supposed to vote with the majority of how the registered democratic public votes, but they do not have to (meaning they can be paid or bullied to vote for clinton when sanders is the popular vote.) then don't forget there are superdelegates who's vote is counted 10:1 over the normal deligates. meaning if all of the nations superdelegates get together and vote for clinton and all of the normal deligates (who represent the voting public for the democrats) voted for sanders the superdelegate votes count for more and clinton get the DNC nomination and sanders goes home. Just like he did in 2016...

Your vote in the primary means nothing. The deep state/those who control the superdelegates (the big campaign contributors to the DNC) control who the democratic nominee is.

So in the end it does not matter who votes for sanders AOC or biden. if the DNC says biden then it will be biden who wins the primaries.

You guys are already loosing your freedoms in democratic specific functions like the primaries, which is fine by me, but don't look to spread this corruption and freedom thievery over the rest of the country!

Fine words from someone whose preferred candidate got about 3 million votes less than the actual winner and still won the Presidency because the Electoral College is jacked. And also, there actually are photos that better show the scope of the Bernie crowd. Unfortuately, it's not letting me post the actual image:



Here's a link to it if you want to actually see it. Over 15,000 people. And there was a comparable turnout at Navy Pier the next day:

[The Grand Nudger]

This is why the headline "Trump Rally turns into Nazi Revisionist Panel" would surprise exactly no one.

[Drich]

Here's the 25 points of the intial NSDAP platform from 1920. I'll bold the parts that don't add up with the socialism narrative:

1. We demand the unification of all Germans in the Greater Germany on the basis of the right of self-determination of peoples. Notice that this doesn't explain what would happen if the people self-determined they didn't want to be part of the Greater Germany

2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in respect to the other nations; abrogation of the peace treaties of Versailles and St. Germain.

3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people, and colonization for our surplus population. Sounds a lot closer to imperialism than socialism

4. Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently no Jew can be a member of the race. Sounds a lot closer to the Ethnostate idea that the alt-righters have been agitating for than any socialism.

5. Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest, and must be under the authority of legislation for foreigners.

6. The right to determine matters concerning administration and law belongs only to the citizen. Therefore we demand that every public office, of any sort whatsoever, whether in the Reich, the county or municipality, be filled only by citizens. We combat the corrupting parliamentary economy, office-holding only according to party inclinations without consideration of character or abilities. Sounds good in theory, (at least if you ignore the previous two points) but bear in mind that a few months after taking power, they were doing more or less that same thing

7. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.

8. Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since the 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich. Sounds a lot like Trump, dunnit?

9. All citizens must have equal rights and obligations. Might seem socialist on the surface, but look back to the previous five or so points.

10. The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all Consequently we demand:

11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.

12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

16. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

17. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.

18. We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, Schieber and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.

19. We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.

20. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.

21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.

22. We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.

23. We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that: a. All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race: b. Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the State to be published. They may not be printed in the German language: c. Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications, or any influence on them, and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands. Who in this day and age has been harping about "fake news" for years and has even gone so far as to call them "Enemies of the People"?

24. We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: common utility precedes individual utility.

25. For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.

Adolf Hitler proclaimed the following explanation for this program on the 13 April 1928:

Explanation

Regarding the false interpretations of Point 17 of the program of the NSDAP on the part of our opponents, the following definition is necessary:

"Since the NSDAP stands on the platform of private ownership it happens that the passage" gratuitous expropriation concerns only the creation of legal opportunities to expropriate if necessary, land which has been illegally acquired or is not administered from the view-point of the national welfare. This is directed primarily against the Jewish land-speculation companies.

Notice how many of these points actually seem closer to Trump than any actual socialists, especially the Bernie Sanders types. And in case you didn't notice it, it didn't morph into dictorship because they tried pure socialism and found it unworkable. That was always the plan from Day one, and if the previous 24 points weren't enough to explain it, #25 made it exceedingly plain.

I posted a link to this very same list (how ever I did not plagiarize mine as I gave credit to my source material, which you seemed to simply cut and paste from) 

everything here despite your personal objections are socialist in nature. even point 17. as no where in the demand does it say private citizens have the ablity to privately hold land. it simply says there will be abolishment of land tax. the state was being taxed via the treaty of versailles via it's holdings, which is how germany was partially annexed and subdivided into austria and other countries after WWI. They could not afford to pay tax on all the land they took or claimed so they had to relinquish control. That is why they invaded austria poland and hungry to take back what was taken after WWI

is it your brand of socialism? is it what you would recommend for the us government to enact? clearly not. it is an aryan/Nazi form of socialism. Meaning the nazis did what they wanted when they wanted.. They flew the flag od socialism to sell it to the people whe the people had a voice. once hitler was put in power it all began to change. while still holding to the ideas of socialism on paper hitler has a whole different agenda..

But this is my point. while the virtues of socialism are always marched out front it is often a teaser with no sustainable substance, it is always used as a means for wicked people to gain power, and once they have power they move to turn the world into their own personal hell! Every single form of socalism has taken or is on it's way down this path. some take longer than others but all end up failing or feeding off someone or thing else to sustain a failed ideology.